Adventure Travel with Virtyt Gacaferri - Balkan Natural Adventure

Area/Topic
Kosovo, Trekking

Virtyt Gacaferri
CEO
Balkan Natural Adventure

Virtyt Gacaferri is the driving force behind Balkan Natural Adventure, an exhilarating hiking and trekking company that calls Kosovo home while serving the entire region. But this isn't just your typical adventure outfit. Virtyt's journey from being an ex-journalist, who once reported on the conflicts in the very region he now explores, is nothing short of remarkable.

With an undying passion for the mountains and a fierce commitment to environmental conservation, Virtyt's love for nature was instilled in him from a tender age. As a little boy, his father introduced him to the rugged beauty of the Accursed Mountains, and that was all it took to ignite a lifelong passion for adventure.

But Virtyt didn't embark on this incredible journey alone. He found an equally adventurous spirit in his business partner, Nol Krasniqi, and together, they've transformed their company into a major player in the region's adventure tourism scene. The energy and enthusiasm they bring to every expedition are infectious, making Balkan Natural Adventure a top choice for thrill-seekers looking to explore the breathtaking landscapes of the Balkans.

Virtyt Gacaferri's transformation from journalist to adventure trip provider is a testament to the power of pursuing one's passions. With every hike, trek, and exploration, Virtyt and his team not only provide unforgettable experiences but also strive to preserve the natural beauty that has captivated them since childhood. So, whether you're seeking a heart-pounding adventure or a deeper connection with the environment, Balkan Natural Adventure is your gateway to thrilling escapades in the stunning Balkans. Join Virtyt and his team for a journey that promises to leave you with memories that will last a lifetime!

https://bnadventure.com/

Summary
Virtyt Gacaferri, founder of Balkan Natural Adventures, shares his story and the appeal of the Accursed Mountains in the Balkans. He discusses the history and transformation of the region, the accessibility and duration of the trail, and the potential for combining the trip with other destinations. Virtyt also emphasizes the importance of sustainability and responsible tourism, and offers advice for adventure travelers. He highlights the need for cultural sensitivity and open-mindedness when visiting the Balkans, and recommends reading fiction books to gain a deeper understanding of the area.

Takeaways

• The Accursed Mountains in the Balkans offer a diverse and scenic trail that connects Kosovo, Montenegro, and Albania.
• Adventure travelers should prioritize sustainability and responsible tourism practices when visiting the region.
• Cultural sensitivity and open-mindedness are crucial when engaging with locals and discussing sensitive topics.
• Reading fiction books about the area can provide a deeper understanding of the culture and history of the Balkans.

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Transcript

So ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the big world made small podcast. Today we're here with Virtyt Gacaferri from Balkan Natural Adventures Virtyt How did I do with pronunciation of your name? Very good. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. You're very, very kind. I appreciate that. So Virtyt , welcome to the show. So so excited to have you here.

We've had a couple of conversations now and just you've got a really interesting story. And frankly, probably a lot more experience giving interviews than I do. So tell us a little bit about your story. What were you doing before tourism and how did that kind of spin off and trans and I guess change your trajectory into tourism to what you're doing today? Well, all of my life I have done

the same thing, but I just changed the thing that I did for different audiences or for different industries. So my BA is English language and literature, and then I did a master's in journalism. So I started as a journalist, which was telling people stories about what happened. And my audience was the general public and my employer was a newspaper. Then I moved to UN. I changed the industry. But again, I was telling stories of UN.

to people about the level of poverty, about things that UN was doing. So I did change the industry, but I did not change the work. I was still telling stories. Then I continued telling stories for a bank, how the bank that I was working was the best bank in the world. Of course it was. And then after the bank, I worked for Booz Allen Hamilton, who was implementing a development project in Kosovo. And then I was telling how great...

Jason Elkins (02:29.57)
Booz Allen Hamilton and USAID is in helping Kosovo people with their projects. And then I got married and my wife had to move to Switzerland. So we threw the coin. I had to follow. So I had to tell some other stories. I had a friend who was a tourist guy and I love nature. So he said, let's tell the story about the occurs mountains in Kosovo to the world.

So then we started the company. He was the guide. I was telling stories. We told the story to the people. People liked the story. We kept our word. We gave the best service that we could. And when we didn't give the service, we agreed that we did not give the service, told the clients, we are sorry we could not give the service. How can we compensate this for you? And this is the formula that worked with us. And this is the formula that brought us to where we are, to be one of the top.

touristic agencies in the Balkans in seven years of our existence. Very cool. I see the thread. Okay. I missed that the first time we chatted, but you're absolutely right. You're doing the same work, different audience, maybe different subject matter. But yeah, that's and that's I find that most people that are successful in tourism are at heart a good storyteller, because you get to get to

share the story ahead of time so people will feel inspired to go be a part of that story. When they're there, you're sharing stories with them. I know, I've been around a campfire or two or sitting at a lodge table having conversations at dinner. And that's great because that's really what inspired this conversation that we're having here on the Big World Bates Fall Cup podcast was to just kind of help share our stories and spread those stories around and inspire people to get up off the rut and go do something.

So awesome. Thank you so much for being here. You also, because I think this might play a role in where you're at and what you're doing, but the first time we spoke, you told me, and I might be off by a number to you, but I think you said you lived in seven different countries early on in your life. Tell me about that. What did you mean when you told me that? Not too early in my life. Oh, that story.

Jason Elkins (04:53.538)
Because I have two stories about living in different countries. At this point, I blew my mind the story that I live in different countries without moving. Yes, yes. I was born in a socialist republic, a federative republic of Yugoslavia, which was the old Yugoslavia of Tito, whoever remembers him. And then this Yugoslavia broke up. And then from this Yugoslavia, some republics separated. Then we had

a federative republic of Yugoslavia, so I was a citizen of another country. Then this country split again and then it became Serbia and Montenegro. So I was a citizen in Serbia and Montenegro. And then there was a war in Kosovo and the war ended. We were managed by or

Jason Elkins (05:50.426)
United Nations mission in Kosovo country. So I had a passport with UN on it and then Kosovo got independence and then I lived in Kosovo. And this is how because when I was a kid I traveled a lot but when Yugoslavia started breaking down we were poor I would say easily we were poor. We were happy but poor and we did not have a chance to travel but we had the chance to change our country that we were living in.

by sitting in our own city. So yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah, I can imagine that would have an impact on somebody, you know, most of maybe most of the people that are listening to this podcast have, you know, have their home country, it's been their home country, this very similar politics, things change a little bit, but for the most part, a fair amount of stability.

in their lives, they've got the US dollar, the Democrat party, the Republican party, there's a consistency going throughout. So I can imagine growing up in an environment where it's changing around you every few months, every few years, all of a sudden you've got new papers, you've got new currency, that uncertainty, it's hard to start a business, it's hard to maybe think about what you wanna do when you grow up because you don't know which country you're gonna be living in.

when you grow up. Do you think that had a big impact in your desire to tell stories and go into journalism?

Jason Elkins (07:24.95)
Yeah, because when I worked in journalism, I was thinking that I was doing a good thing to my former country also, which I think is the case with most of the journalists in the world. And I was lucky to work in journalism during 90s. And 90s were golden years of journalism because there was still objectivity. There were still not too many media. There were not a lot of commentators. Society was not that much divided.

So people were reading the same media and the media had to be careful. Well now it's a totally different set up in journalism. Some people watch one TV station, other people watch the other TV station, and they don't talk to each other. And the objectivity is not a necessity anymore, you know. It's more like talking to a converted crowd. So I...

I believe that I worked in these golden days of journalism. And as I was working in Kosovo while there was a war, I had a chance to work as a translator for big US media. I worked with some people from New York Times, some people from the Washington Post. I had a great friend who is a lawyer now in Maryland. He was a writer from Kosovo for Christian Science Monitor, which was a great newspaper. I'm very sorry that it died,

with the values that they had, it was difficult for them to stay afloat, but it was a great newspaper. And the friend that I was working with was great. So I got the trade from the best people in journalism in the world. It was a big thing for me. And I learned from them a lot. And I still remember now when I do the work,

I still think of the work that I did with these great people in journalism in order to do my work. That's very cool. What I heard when you were saying that was, it sounded like the golden years of journalism where you had an opportunity to actually educate.

Jason Elkins (09:50.03)
impact, influence, change in the world, whereas now the media is more of preaching to the choir. You've got this one particular, you know, they're preaching, they're just reinforcing beliefs that their listeners already have and are more catering to their audience as opposed to trying to get a message out there to educate or inform. It's just like, hey, our listeners want to hear us say this.

So therefore, this is what we're going to say. Is that right? Did I hear that right? It's there, yes. And I don't want this to become a discussion about media. I don't, me either. However, the coming up of social media did change society, did change the media. And now a journalist, a single journalist can open his YouTube channel and he can become a media. So as you are doing now,

for all the good reasons. And some people may do for not all the good reasons. So it's totally different situation. And for me, for somebody it may be different, but for me, I think that the journalism during the 90s and early 2000 and the 80s was much better than what we have now, though I may be mistaken, but this is my opinion. Oh yeah, I appreciate this. And there's a couple of sides to everything. It's...

It's fascinating to me that we have so many different ways to communicate that people that never really had a chance to communicate before were able to. So maybe that's the trade-off, but anyway, yeah. But back on topic, and thank you for having that conversation with me. I know it's kind of part of who you are. I mean, we connected through social media, really, and we're having our own highest conversation working to try and provide information to the people that I believe are listening to this show, I guess. I don't know.

But I want to get back on. So really, as you moved into tourism, tell us a little bit more about the Accursed Mountains. How did they attract your attention? What's special about them? Because frankly, I suspect there's a few people, myself included, that have never even heard of the Accursed Mountains. I will go back to me living in different countries. When I was born in Kosovo and when I grew up,

Jason Elkins (12:16.214)
Some of the borders that went through these mountains were borders guarded by army and police and people were killed when they wanted to cross from one country to the other because they wanted to escape, they wanted to ask for asylum. And these mountains were blocked, they were closed and they were putting limits to people's movement. As democracy came...

As peace came, then people thought, why don't we turn these mountains to something that people communicate, not something that divided people. Then there was a big project of a German development agency called GIZ, who gathered people, local people, and said, let's do this. Let's do a big trail. And then they decided, and the trail was designed. So this trail goes through Kosovo, Montenegro.

Andalvania. Originally, original trail is 192 kilometers. And it connects all three countries. So that is one value that it adds. And the second thing that I always get feedback from my clients who travel the world is the diversity that this trail brings. So when you walk within one day, you can walk through a forest.

through a meadow with full of flowers, full of greenery, and then go through rocky places, go through a crest of a peak, and come down in a village. So this is the beauty that it brings. They are not very high compared to Himalayas, for example. They are around between 2,300, 2,600 meters.

And they are not huge. So all the time as you move, your view change, you see different things. You don't get all the time the same view as you would get in a huge mountain because you will have to walk on the same pace all the time. So this brings a lot of differences and a lot of... This year, it was our luck. We had...

Jason Elkins (14:44.326)
a guest, Stacy Allison, who is the first woman, US woman, to climb Everest. And she also gave me this feedback from her trip that for her it was diversity that was the most, the best thing that she found there. And if you're lucky, you can see some animals. We have wild goats and we have bears also. So you can see them. For US market.

Bears may not be very interesting, but for Europeans, it's very interesting because in Western Europe, there are very few bears left. So if you see a bear, it is a spectacle of its own. You know, it's interesting because we do probably have, you know, higher numbers of bears, especially compared to Western Europe. But honestly, we don't see them that often. Most Americans don't see a lot of bears, maybe if they go to Yellowstone or if they go up into Alaska.

But I'll tell you what, there are a lot of people that are pretty passionate. My mom's into bears. She watches these live cams of the grizzly bears up in Alaska. She'll sit there for hours on her phone and watch these bears. And she knows them all by name. And so it's so yeah, that's pretty cool. Is the only way to access this trail by foot? Is this a 100% trekking trail or is it something that bicycle tour operators do as well or what does that look like?

Well, part of it is very good, can be used for bicycle because there it's, you can bike next to the crest with the big views, but to do the original trail, you would need to carry your bike a little bit. And we don't get a lot of bikers because we have some other mountains which are more roundy and the steep, which are better for bikers. And we don't do biking tours and I don't hear anybody doing

doing biking tours in the trail, though here and there, there may be someone. And the trail is open, let's say, from May till September. But with climate change, we're having May and June more and more rain, and even we have the snow in June, which was rare till now, while September and October are becoming better and better for hikes.

Jason Elkins (17:07.874)
So September, October are very good months and the colors start changing. A lot of people don't have vacations, so it's less crowded. So it's a very good time to come in the early autumn. And what's the average amount of time that somebody would do this trip? Give me some idea of days people should set aside for this. What would they do before or after? What does that look like?

I would say you don't come there under four days. Right. And you can do up to 12 days. And if you come from us, it's a, you can combine it with a lot of things. You have Dubrovnik in Croatia.

And then you can do Cotor in Montenegro, which are beautiful ancient cities. And then from there, you can take a bus and you can come to Cursed Mountains and you can rent a car and then do a hike. And then you can go and visit the coast of Albania and the Greece is just right there, right at the corner. It's a beautiful combination if you want.

to combine with some culture or you're going back to your roots, you come from the region, you want to go and visit. It's a great combination. Though some people want just to hike, so for hike you can do up to 12 days easily. And then Albania is becoming better and better for its food offer. So gastronomy, there are like

Big number of Albanians after communism went to Italy as migrants. And some of them became cooks and they came back to build their own country. So they are taking these ingredients from the region, building this beautiful cuisine, which is just amazing. And we all know that Croatia and Montenegro have a big experience in tourism.

Jason Elkins (19:18.358)
But I think still Albania is dual, which is getting discovered very fast. So before it becomes Croatia very, very crowded, you run and visit. I was gonna ask you that, cause I appreciate that, people that aren't super familiar with the area, they hear Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, Croatia, and like...

How would you describe in a nutshell the differences like as someone that's just like, oh, what are the, what's the differences between these? Do you have like a one-liner for each one that just kind of helps us get our head around that or is it much more complicated than that?

Well, I would say that the two most beautiful countries in the Balkans are Montenegro and Albania, because they merge seaside and mountains. But Montenegro has a longer experience, a longer tradition in tourism, and was more open than Albania. So it's more sophisticated in some of its infrastructure.

is rougher. There are places which have no access with cars, villages very far away. And the genuine welcome, the genuine welcoming of people is still there. And I can see this still there because people like to have guests in Albanian tradition, it's like to welcome everybody is like a part of our culture.

Jason Elkins (20:59.262)
and these people start making money, then it's not about welcoming people, it's about business. Then it changes. And I see changing in many places. I see a lot of people who started doing tourism when they were poor and they were opening their doors with a big heart. They don't feel that comfortable anymore because it became a business. They don't have a joy of having somebody at home, knowing him personally.

and leaving and him leaving the home with knowledge of each other. But Albania, some parts of Albania still have this. Some guest houses in Albania are still small, and they still remember every guest that come. So I would say 2024 2025 will be the two last years when you can still experience this.

2026, it's going to be very nice. It's going to be a good touristic experience. But the heart of welcoming will start to be lost and will become rarer and rarer. Yeah. Well, that's one of the unfortunate things with most communities as tourism comes in. It has that lifecycle, right? Before everybody knows about it, you've

Jason Elkins (22:28.758)
that show up, the ones that we would probably classify as adventure travelers. They don't necessarily wanna go to where the cruise ships and the resort hotels are. So they really benefit from that connection and that maybe the infrastructure is not as great, but they're able to have that real connection. And then they go right on their blogs about Albania and how much fun they had there. And then...

more people and more people and more people. And then it gets to the point where the people that are a little bit more hesitant are like, okay, I'm gonna go, cause everybody's talking about it. Well, now we need these big hotels and all that stuff. And it loses kind of its charm. And then you end up with a place like, Niagara Falls in New York, anybody that's ever been to Niagara Falls, you can kind of see how the whole progression of tourism can have an impact on an area, which is why it's important

Now that people like yourself, I know you take a real leadership role in sustainability in your environment. And how do we continue that so we don't end up like Niagara Falls, New York? So what are your thoughts on that? What should people know about sustainability and areas like where you're at? How do you because you're not the only tour operator there, but how do you work with other operators and influence things that so you can continue to do this for years to come?

So me and some other people like me, we sometimes feel guilty because we are responsible for bringing people in these areas. And then these places get spoiled. However, if we don't bring people in these areas, people who live there will be poor. They will cut the trees.

they will not have a good life. So then you're between destroying nature by cutting trees and bringing tourists and then damaging nature by this. And then there's a second thing. If you don't do it, somebody else will do it. So my decision was, let's do it, and let's do it right.

Jason Elkins (24:54.686)
And I think in every mountain that you go, there is like curves when it starts, that is very sustainable. Then you have some pollution, then people get educated, then the pollution goes down and everything gets improved. I think we are in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a, in a,

Jason Elkins (25:23.074)
then understanding that we should limit and we should have a sustainable tourism. And then we as a company, which has got a partnership with Travel Life, which is a sustainable certification, there are several projects. And when I approach to guides, when I approach to guest houses, when I approach to everybody, they are open and they want to do this. But then they also want to develop.

So now we have to find that fine line to keep the place developing without it being destroyed. And the

That can definitely be a real challenge. Go ahead. It's a challenge and it's difficult because you don't know where you hit the line. Yeah, no, absolutely. Where we're to the border. So what would be your advice to listeners, to adventure travelers that maybe they're checking off a list of all the places they've been and.

you know, Kosovo, the Balkans is on their list or anywhere really, what advice would you give them to help them figure out if they're working with somebody that is aligned with that sustainability mindset or like, cause maybe it's hard for us to tell when we look at operators, you know, you mentioned travel life as kind of an endorsement type of organization maybe that I'm honestly not familiar with.

Yeah, what advice do you have for people that are traveling to help them align with operators that do take the sustainable approach? I think that it's quite difficult to find the operator, because you can have the certifications and the logos there, but somebody will do it only to put the logo, but will not respect the logo. And then you it's difficult to get the logo, but it's not that difficult to keep it once you get it. So you can

Jason Elkins (27:36.482)
be not that good and still keep the logo. And then this does not guarantee you anything. I think travelers should rather think to themselves whether they go hiking, not to take more transport than they need. So if you go to hike, you say, okay, if it's 20 kilometers, I'll walk 20 kilometers, I will not ask a transport to shorten my trip.

If I go there, I will be strong, I will pack lightly, and I will not ask for somebody to carry my luggage.

I will take my linen with me. So when I sleep in a guest house, because there will be only one night, they will not have to change the linen. They will keep their own, you will have their own and you will sleep on your own, which will be cleaner for you. And it will be more sustainable for the guest house. So I think travelers can take actions by themselves. No matter what they book with.

Because for operators, I think the conscious traveler, it's easier to work with than a traveler who will pollute. Because they will ask less things that you should do in the mountain. So what you're saying is adopt a sense of individual responsibility?

Is that what you're saying?

Jason Elkins (29:19.654)
Yeah. And then the operator will have to follow you because the operators will follow clients. I will not talk about throwing trash in the mountain because I don't think any tourist does that anymore or something like that. But then you think of sustainability when you travel and you say like

private transport, I will take public transport. And there are a lot of things that actions that you can take in order to reduce the pollution that you do to a place. Now that's a really good point because, you know, as tour operators, you're right. There's this kind of spot between making the clients happy,

making this a sustainable thing. And sometimes it's a challenge. So my example is, you know, as a fly fishing guide in Montana, we practiced catch and release fishing. We were fishing for wild trout that, you know, had been born and hatched in the river, will die in the river. And that was very, very important. That's why people come to Montana to go fly fishing. But then you get the client in the boat that maybe hasn't been fishing before, they catch a fish and they're like, oh, can we have it for lunch?

you know, because their narrative of fishing is different. I didn't do that for them, but it did make for a difficult conversation, but actually a good conversation because it gives me an opportunity to kind of explain why we're not having it for lunch. But I can see, I know I saw other guides on the river that just gave in because they're thinking, okay, my tip is involved at the end of the day. So...

Having the responsibility begin with the client is great. Having the guide there to help educate is helpful. But really if the client can show up with this mindset of what can I do to make this, leave this place better than I found it, then it does make it a lot easier on the tour operator. So, and I love that we brought that up because we've got a variety of people listening to the show today. So that's very cool.

Jason Elkins (31:43.082)
What else do you think that people that are visiting your area really need to know? You meet someone and they say, I'm going, you know, to the Balkans in a couple months, regardless of season, whatever, but like, what are the two or three things that you think that somebody needs to know either before they consider a trip or before they actually go that might not be obvious to them?

I think that the best thing is not to read the politics and political books when you come. I would rather recommend people read literature because literature, though it's not the truth, it's fiction. It gives the soul of the place. It gives the spirit of the place and it will not be offensive to people.

be offending to somebody locally, maybe the people who read one political book about the country. If you read more, then you understand more. But if you know just a little, then you rather sit and listen and maybe not express yourself because you can have people exploding and saying things, you know. And there may be a lot of misconceptions like

Jason Elkins (33:09.238)
You grew up in a place where there is a religion is important. When you go in another place, you will take your luggage with you. You will take your mentality with you when you will think that religion is important in the other place, which may not be the case. Something else may be important there, you know, so all these things can start up discussions, which may turn out to be a bit noisy.

But at the end of the day in the Balkans you have two glasses of rakija or grappa or like grape liquor and then everybody loves everybody. So even in the worst cases we come to peace in the end. So what I heard you say was come open minded, try and leave some of your own baggage at home. You don't need to bring everything with you. And.

Yeah, and listen a little bit, kind of judge your surroundings before you jump in. It's a great example of that. I'm in Colombia right now, and Colombia has an interesting past, and I've spent enough time here to know that if someone from outside the country comes here and immediately starts talking about certain things in Colombia's past, you're not going to get very far. You're not going to make a lot of friends. You're going to be like, okay, I'm done talking to you. You go about your day.

Unfortunately, I'm fairly attuned to things like that. So I never brought it, but I've seen people do it. I've been in guest houses and I've seen people show up and wanna talk about these things that, you know, just that don't work very well. So that's great advice. And yeah, I can imagine, especially with all the politics and the history of that region, maybe people are interested in it. Maybe they read about it, but they don't need to necessarily show up like they're trying to influence it. So.

or being experts of the country that they are visiting better than people who live in it. And it goes both ways, right? You know it goes both ways because as an American, I can't tell you how many times I've shown up and had my host wanting to share their opinion of politics in the US and things like that. And that's fine. I get it.

Jason Elkins (35:35.982)
And it also it's just kind of like, well, I didn't want to come there to sit and talk about, you know, politicians back home or the same thing if I'm visiting them, they don't want you to come in and you know, you know, that's really, really good advice.

Jason Elkins (36:03.794)
of the official politics of the country. Yeah. I don't want to talk about Donald Trump. Like, why did you elect Donald Trump? I'm like, I'm one person out of 365 million people. And yeah, I get that. And it just kind of sometimes there's so many other more interesting things to discuss.

Right? Like, I want to discuss, wow, where did you learn to make this? Tell me about the story because I know it probably involves, you know, you and a kitchen with your great grandmother, you know, making this stuff. And it's not even written down. Like, I want to hear about that. I want to hear about, you know, if you call it politics, I want to hear the story about, you know, the trail across the Accursed Mountains. And I want to hear about some of the history.

because that's valid. But yeah, there's just so many things. And that's fortunately, I think that adventure travelers are much more the types that are, I think it takes two things to be an adventure traveler. And anybody listening to the podcast has heard me say this before, but it's the ability and the willingness to get outside your comfort zone and the curiosity. You know, it's the curiosity. So adventure travelers tend to, I think, show up much more open-minded than the person that.

I'm not knocking cruises, but the person that's on a cruise ship and steps onto the port for a day excursion and who knows what kind of conversation they're going to have with their guide. It's probably going to be a little different than the average person listening to this show. Do you have a favorite fiction book about the area since you brought that up? Oh, yes. It's called Broken April by a Venom writer, Ismail Kadare.

called Broken April. Broken April. Yes, and it's a Brazilian director made a film from this book.

Jason Elkins (38:12.814)
Okay, so it's very interesting for somebody from Brazil to take a book in Albania and to make a film. And the book is called Broken April because this guy who is in a blood feud.

gets killed in the middle of April. And that's how April gets broken. And the story is about this guy going to avenge a death and a young couple celebrating their honeymoon in their cursed mountains. And it's an amazing book. It's a very good book and I recommend it.

when I send the document to clients and I recommend it in my website. And I recently I had a client he said like, I chose to travel with you. Like what agency tells me what to read what book to read before I go there. They usually tells me about hotels and things like that. So this is great. And he read the book. And the good thing is that the book is translated in many, many languages. So it's a

English of course but it's also in Japanese, in French, in Scandinavian languages. It's really popular and this writer got a Man Booker prize which is given in UK for writers and he got an award, another great award which I don't remember now by the French president just recently.

Jason Elkins (39:58.25)
You find the book anywhere that you look for it. Yeah. Sounds cool. You've given me a couple ideas. First of all, I'm going to read the book before I visit your area. And I'm going to start asking that. This is like, I'm happy I asked you that question, because I love when I'm going to go visit an area picking up some sort of story. I want to hear something that's, like you said, not direct politics, not the fromers travel died to wherever, wherever. I want to really kind of.

read something that's going to help give me an understanding of that area and the people in that area. So that is very cool. I'm going to remember that. I recommend a good book, a good fiction book about your area. So thanks for that tip. Ratoo, I really appreciate you being here today. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Well, travel, travel light, listen, learn, and share your stories.

I think that would be it. Yeah. Very, very wise words. And real quick, before we jump off here, I want everybody to know that we're going to have some information on how you can connect with Vertut down in the show notes, including a link to his website. And if you're planning to visit the area or if you've never, ever even thought about visiting the area, but after this conversation, maybe run out by the book. And it sounds like by the time you're done reading the book, you're definitely going to want to visit. And

Just reach out to Vertut. Obviously, he's gonna take great care of you and share a good experience with you. So Vertut, thank you so much for being here today on the Big World Made Small podcast, helping us make the big world feel just a bit smaller. Great job, thanks. Jason, it was my pleasure, thank you.