Adventure Travel with Mikael Castro - Journey Brazil

Area/Topic
Brazil, Ecotourism, Destination Management, Luxury Travel

Mikael Castro
Co-founder and GM
Journey Brazil

Sustainable Tourism Strategist | 20+ Years of Global Experience | Conde Nast Top Travel Specialist 2023

As a seasoned manager with over 20 years of experience in the tourism industry, I am focused on providing unique and sustainable travel experiences. Throughout my career, I have worked with tour operators, non-profits, and international associations in over 25 countries and visited over 76 countries. I am an expert luxury and adventure travel professional with the ability to design, market and operate complex itineraries in unique locations. I thrive creating experiences that connect people profoundly with the places they visit and people they meet.

I have a passion for photography and sharing through storytelling.

https://journeybrazil.com/

summary
Mikael Castro, the former country manager for Brazil for Abercrombie & Kent DMC, shares his journey from growing up between Brazil and the United States to working in the tourism industry. He discusses his passion for travel, his experiences exploring different cultures, and the impact of his father's work in conservation. Mikael also talks about his decision to leave his corporate role and embark on a nine-month expedition with his father in Africa, which led him to pursue a career in tourism and hospitality.

In this episode, Mikael shares his love for Brazil and the surprises that visitors often encounter when they experience Rio de Janeiro. He highlights Brazil's vast diversity, with landscapes and attractions that extend far beyond popular spots like Rio and Iguazu Falls. Mikael also discusses Brazil's leadership in renewable energy and the abundant opportunities for sustainable travel across the country.

He emphasizes the importance of hospitality in Brazil, where guides play a crucial role in fostering authentic connections with travelers. From sharing meals with locals to participating in cultural traditions like soccer, these personal interactions create lasting memories. With its rich natural resources and diverse biomes, Brazil is an ideal destination for transformative and sustainable travel experiences.

Since recording this episode, Mikael has gone become the cofounder of Journey Brazil, a luxury DMC with a focus on creating unique travel experiences that have a positive impact.

takeaways

• Mikael Castro's upbringing in a family passionate about travel and conservation shaped his love for exploring different cultures and the natural world.
• His decision to embark on a nine-month expedition with his father in Africa led him to pursue a career in tourism and hospitality.
• Mikael's deep connection to Brazil and its unique identity influenced his decision to work in the tourism industry and promote the country's natural beauty and outdoor experiences.
• Visitors to Rio de Janeiro are often surprised by the city's stunning landscapes, friendly people, and opportunities for outdoor adventures. Brazil is a vast country with diverse landscapes and attractions beyond the popular destinations of Rio de Janeiro and Iguazu Falls.
• There are many opportunities for sustainable travel in Brazil, with the country leading the way in renewable energy sources.
• The hospitality gene is essential for guides in Brazil, as they not only provide information but also create authentic connections with travelers.

Learn more about the Big World Made Small Podcast and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers at bigworldmadesmall.com.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:00.972)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. This is kind of a big day. We've got somebody that's from and living in Brazil. So that that's kind of cool. It'll be the first first time I've interviewed somebody that's that's in Brazil. So we're to chat a little bit about that. But let's first get to know Mikael Castro. He is the country manager for Brazil for Abercrombie and Kent DMC. Mikael, welcome to the show. Happy to have you

Mikael Castro (00:28.346)
Thank you, Jason. Very nice to be here and very nice to partake in this podcast.

Jason Elkins (00:33.57)
Yeah, we're going to have a great conversation. And did I get that right? Were you born and raised in Brazil?

Mikael Castro (00:38.222)
was born and raised until I was five in Brazil. So yeah, that counts, I guess.

Jason Elkins (00:43.724)
All right. Well, very cool. Well, let's get into that because we're going to chat a little bit about Brazil. We're going to obviously chat a little bit about Abercrombie and Kent, and we're going to chat a little bit about DMC, what that's all about. But before we do that, I did want to kind of dig into your past and your history and figure out how did you get from where you were to where you are now? So should we start at the age of five? Or sooner if you want, if you remember

Mikael Castro (01:03.76)
tour, we can start at the age of five. That's a good place. Why not? So at the age of five, we moved to the United States, both my parents and my brother and sister to Washington, DC. And it was one of those moves where, OK, we're going to go for six months for a job, a temporary job that my parents had. And six months went to 16, 20 years. So it was a lifetime.

Well, not quite a lifetime, but my entire childhood, let's just put it that way. My parents ended up working for Conservation International. So it's a large environmental NGO in Washington, DC. And that was very formative to my background in sustainability and ecotourism. And my dad is absolutely passionate about travel.

Jason Elkins (01:55.204)
Sure, no, that makes

Mikael Castro (01:59.234)
And so that as well, you know, really impacted how we were brought up. so both conservation, travel were part of my

Jason Elkins (02:10.596)
So let's dig a little bit more into that. You said that he was passionate about travel. I take it before he ever left Brazil. Was he already into traveling and exploring or was this something that came along kind of after you'd moved to the U

Mikael Castro (02:23.46)
Yeah, no, good question. Dad was always passionate about travel. He's a photographer and a journalist by trade. And so he always had a passion of traveling the world and taking amazing photos. And that's what he did. Even working at Conservation International, a lot of his job was about communicating using visual.

media, so photos, to help conservation messages get across throughout the world. And so he married that very well. And of course, being raised in that household, along with my mom, who also worked with him in that same sort of International Communications Department of Conservation International, I was raised sort of with this tremendous wonder of the cultures of the

Jason Elkins (03:15.428)
Cool. And at what point did you actually start to travel? Were you traveling with them for any of these projects that you working on or were you able to go explore and have kind of vacations or what did that look like as you were growing

Mikael Castro (03:30.636)
Yeah, mean, my parents had this philosophy that the best investment in the childhood education was, yes, of course, a university, but more than that, it was traveling. So we never had a fancy car, all the lavish sort of day -to -day amenities that you might have growing up, but we did invest in family vacations.

And we were very serious about it. It was, you know, if we had more than a week off at school, it was a family vacation. And my parents were very serious about, know, okay, we're gonna go visit Greece. So, you know, study about it, learn about it. And in fact, in some points, we even had to do sort of internal reports with my parents, you know, about what we traveled, what we saw, what were the best elements, what we learned.

Jason Elkins (04:17.72)
You

Mikael Castro (04:23.936)
It was actually really, really formative to learning about people all around the

Jason Elkins (04:30.938)
This is all starting to make sense to me, Mick. I mean, I can see why you're doing the type of work you're doing now. And I've spoken with quite a few different people that have totally different backgrounds. Some of them grew up traveling and others, their parents never took them anywhere. It was just something that they weren't able to provide. then people wanted, that's why they wanted to go do it, because they weren't able to, but it sounds like something that you were just brought up

Mikael Castro (04:58.446)
Yeah, and it's something where I think not just about learning about other cultures, but you learn about yourself as well. And it gives you this tolerance of being in uncomfortable situations, eating uncomfortable food, sleeping in different beds. So it's just, it sort of ups that tenacity scale as you grow up, which I think is very, very useful nowadays.

Jason Elkins (05:23.214)
Well, and you mentioned two siblings,

Mikael Castro (05:28.09)
Yes, I have an older brother and older

Jason Elkins (05:29.422)
So I'm imagining the, I'm imagining the family of five taking some of these trips when you, when you speak about kind of overcoming some, you know, adversities and some, some dis, you know, discomfort and stuff like that. imagine a family of five in Greece, probably a lot of great things come out of it, but some of those great things are learning how to deal with people that you're traveling with. I'm

Mikael Castro (05:53.412)
absolutely. And, you know, of course we were always making sure to sort of have value in our trips. In other words, not overspend because we did invest a lot. You know, my parents invested a lot in these trips. So certainly it was a smaller rental car than we would probably enjoy. So the three kids crammed in the back, you know, and you can imagine sort of the type of stories. In fact,

We made sure to make the most of every moment we had in country. We're sort of those types of travelers. So my parents liked to to the sort of the attraction early, as soon as it opens, in some cases before it opens. I remember visiting a castle in the UK, in England, where we got there, of course, before it opened. We were there by something like 7 .30 or 8. And it only was going to open by 9 .30.

And so of course my dad decided, you know what, nobody's here at the door. Let's just climb the wall. We'll visit. And that's exactly what we did. We visited the castle, some medieval castle before it opened and sort of just strolled out the security guard when we walked out was like, did they just, were they here before? Huh? He was just confused. It was fine.

Jason Elkins (07:12.826)
It's very cool. And your siblings, you mentioned they're older. I'm curious, of two parts. One is, they as enthusiastic as you are or were like, I just, I'd love to almost have this conversation with your siblings as well and understand how that impacted them. Are either of them working in tourism and adventure travel now or how did that impact

Mikael Castro (07:35.728)
Sure, no, they took different paths, in fact, but very also inherited certain aspects of both my mom and my dad. My brother, for example, is a video producer and editor in New York. And so he took that sort of photography side from my dad.

Jason Elkins (07:59.03)
Okay, that's very cool. And so what did you end up going to school for? Because you mentioned one of the investments was university. So I'm curious, what was your formal education like?

Mikael Castro (08:09.2)
So, you know, after traveling, you know, was probably 50 different countries or 40 some in sort of through high school, which was incredible. I said, well, of course I'm going to work with the cultures of the world. So I went to university to study anthropology. And, you know, I was thrilled to sort of dive deeper into, you know, what are the different cultures of the world and how they developed. And then I soon figured out that

an anthropologist is a very tough profession to have. So that was my undergraduate degree at the George Washington University in Washington, D .C. And a few years after that, I figured out, you know what, the best way to get around the world isn't necessarily anthropology. And the best way to sort of figure out people around the world is in fact tourism and hospitality. And that's where I started to dive into the tourism industry.

Jason Elkins (09:09.198)
When you say anthropology was kind of a, I don't remember the exact word you just used, but a tough thing. wasn't, I mean, what was it that makes an anthropology degree tough? And how did your parents, were they supportive of anthropology or was this just an idea you came up with?

Mikael Castro (09:27.672)
You know, it's a good question. I wonder what was going through their head when I decided my major. But certainly they were very supportive of the university process in general. They probably weren't quite sure what profession I was going to take on. Essentially, you don't have many choices as an anthropologist. You either become a professor or you go live in the Amazon tribe and write a book about it. Essentially, write an ethnography.

But you know, most of those ethnographies have been written by incredible anthropologists. And I think that today's world is in how we explore different cultures is a lot done and can be explored through incredible travel experiences.

Jason Elkins (10:13.272)
Yeah, I had a feeling you might say that when you mentioned anthropology was tough. I was kind of extending into it's a tough degree to get a job with.

Yeah, yeah. And you're right. mean, tourism sounds like a perfect fit. And I can imagine your parents. So when you switched into tourism, did that, I mean, were they supportive of that or what were their thoughts? Do you Because it seems like a natural fit. Yeah.

Mikael Castro (10:38.902)
no, absolutely supportive. And in fact, wasn't just tourism. I was very much also involved in the conservation aspect of their lifestyle, not just their work, but their lifestyle. And so naturally, I went into more of ecotourism. And I started working with the International Ecotourism Society, which was also based in Washington, DC at the time.

And then that's where really the world opened up and I started to organize international conferences on ecotourism and sustainable tourism. And I got to know so many incredible people from all corners of the world that were creating companies, leading trips, building ecologues that were at the forefront of what this world of ecotourism was coming to.

Jason Elkins (11:37.464)
Very cool. And how did you get from that job to being with Abercrombie in Brazil?

Mikael Castro (11:43.546)
Well, that's, yeah, there was a journey there. At one given moment, I decided to drop everything. And it was because my dad had decided to go on this incredible expedition and he was looking for a travel partner. And at first he said, you know, hey, I wanna...

traveled through Africa in a Land Rover. And I said, good luck, dad. I have a job. I have a girlfriend. I have an apartment. I'm doing quite fine. You go do that. And later, I did some reflection and I thought, what an incredible opportunity, both professionally and mostly personally to really sort of take. And it's one of those moments where you...

you never know what's gonna happen if you don't take it. And so I didn't wanna have any regrets. So I went to my girlfriend and I said, you know what, if you wanna take care of the apartment, I'm gonna be gone for a bit. And I left my job and decided to leave the apartment. I was distant from the girlfriend. I didn't necessarily leave her and embarked on this nine month expedition with my dad in a Land Rover from South Africa all the way to

northern border of Sudan with Egypt. And then we drove all the way back down to South Africa for the 2020 World Cup that was going to be hosted there, that was hosted

Jason Elkins (13:14.476)
Wow, so many questions. I don't know how personal you want to get, but the girlfriend at the time walked me through a little bit more of that. As much as you're comfortable with

Mikael Castro (13:22.608)
That was tough. That was tough. was probably, well, certainly the hardest thing to decide to do was the impact with the girlfriend because it's someone I love. she loves to travel, but she's definitely more homey than me. Let's just put it that way. And I'll cut the story relatively short. When I came back,

Jason Elkins (13:36.804)
Yeah. Did she even like to travel? Did she get

Mikael Castro (13:51.054)
was it was not easy and it was different. I found that girlfriend to be someone completely different and completely changed for the better. In fact, our relationship in the beginning was very much uneven. She was more dependent on me, on the apartment that I owned or rented. And when I left, she had to take care of those things and sort of stand on her own two feet and figure out her job.

lost a couple jobs and had some serious challenges, discovered yoga, became a yoga instructor, which is one of her professions today. And when I came back, I found a much stronger woman and I fell in love all over again and happy to say we're married. And it's been something like 18 years now and have two wonderful girls

Jason Elkins (14:39.939)
Wow!

Jason Elkins (14:45.082)
That's a very cool story. I'm curious if I were to ask her, how did you come back different after nine months? Because you mentioned how she changed, but I have a feeling that you probably changed a little bit as

Mikael Castro (14:56.674)
Yeah, well, you're going to have to do a podcast with her. yeah, I I did change. I think it's the, you know, when you're changing so much in terms of traveling. So every day we were sleeping somewhere different. Essentially we were, you know, on the road, everything around us was changing. And so what happens is your reference to yourself becomes stronger. So you get to see yourself.

Jason Elkins (15:00.1)
You

Mikael Castro (15:24.802)
more in the mirror and understand who you really are. And I think that's one of the beautiful things of travel is when you change all the setting around you, you sort of provoke this internal reflection of, who are you really? Who are you to yourself? And that was a lot of what the journey was about in Africa

Jason Elkins (15:42.648)
Mm -hmm.

Jason Elkins (15:48.77)
And I'm sure there was a lot around traveling with your father, spending nine months with your father, going through that. you know, and that's something we discuss in tourism as family travel and the dynamics and all these things. And it's connection. I believe for me, anyway, this type of travel is really about connection, maybe with self, like what we just discussed, but also you're traveling companions, people in these other communities, the guides that you interact with, or just the people that you meet along the way. So, tell us a little bit about

Mikael Castro (16:18.916)
Well, was incredible to travel with my dad. mean, of course, you have tough moments and great moments at the same time. For one, I think I learned a lot in his way of a journalist, of interacting with everyone at every opportunity and learning from them, whether it's asking tons of questions to the local guide or interviewing someone.

or just sparking up conversation at a cafe and learning that the person's a journalist and then also, and then that journalist interviews us and all of a sudden we're in the local paper. mean, all these incredible situations come up when you open conversation. And my dad is incredibly, you know, incredible at that. So I learned a lot about that, but we had hard moments as well in...

In Uganda, he in fact got malaria and that was really tough. He only sort of felt it as we crossed the border into Rwanda and he started to notice that he was not doing very well. The same day we were seeing the gorillas and I said, this is gonna be an issue. We're up here in the mountains in the middle of the rainforest of the impenetrable forest of Bwindi and dad I think has malaria.

Jason Elkins (17:20.44)
Mm.

Mikael Castro (17:42.608)
And so we ran to the hospital, got him a test, and it was negative because malaria does that. It has these waves of sort of false negatives. And so we continued the trip until I noticed he wasn't responding anymore. He wasn't switching. We would always switch. We had one rule, switch drivers every hour throughout the entire trip in Africa. he wouldn't respond when I said, hey, dad, are you going to drive today? And nothing.

Jason Elkins (17:52.952)
Hmm.

Mikael Castro (18:10.692)
So I rushed to the hospital and lo and behold, we did another test. It was positive. And thankfully we were able to buy the malaria medicine, which was incredibly affordable because I only had a couple of dollars left of local currency in Rwanda and it was less than a dollar. So I bought him one and I bought myself one because the likelihood of me also getting malaria in a few days was pretty high.

It was a few days to sweat it out and get through it, but it's incredible how impactful that disease is all through Africa and the

Jason Elkins (18:48.014)
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There I'm, I don't know why I'm coming up with this right now, but I've heard we're going to change subjects or just not really change subjects, but change direction. I'm staying in Medellin Columbia right now. And I noticed at one point I noticed, man, there's a lot of mosquitoes here all of sudden. And I learned that there's an organization out there breeding mosquitoes that have the, the something about them genetically, or they carry some sort of bacteria or something like that.

basically the mosquitoes with malaria aren't able to reproduce with them or something. It's like release more mosquitoes that are malaria avoidant on some level in order to kind of overwhelm the ones that can carry it. And is that just because we mentioned

Mikael Castro (19:28.664)
Yep. That's something we're doing here in Brazil as well. But there are all sorts of efforts and there are a few different diseases that are mosquito -borne. So to me, I love all wildlife, all species in the world, but mosquitoes, those are the only ones I think I could do without.

Jason Elkins (19:48.472)
Yeah, well, I've had Dengue. My son has had Dengue traveling with me. And yeah, so there's a few things out there that make the mosquito a likely target for our efforts to influence the environment just a little bit. okay, so at what point during that trip to Africa did you start seriously thinking about, what am I going to do when this is over? And what kind of thoughts were you having?

Mikael Castro (20:15.024)
Sure, no, and let's get to Brazil. essentially, I came back from Africa and I did a few more things, but was certain that my path was in hospitality and in tourism. And 2013 was sort of coming around and I knew that we had the World Cup in Brazil in 2014 and then the Olympics game in 2016. So I said, you know what, I'm both Brazilian, American.

Well traveled, I love tourism. Let me get a master's degree in business for tourism and go work in Brazil right before the Olympic Games and the World Cup. And that's exactly what I did. And that's when I started working for sort of the DMC world in Brazil. And that started back in 2013.

Jason Elkins (21:05.614)
So is that because you're also a sports fan or did you just see the influx of tourism to Brazil and just thought, that'd be a good time to join?

Mikael Castro (21:13.84)
It was mostly the timing opportunity. I I love the World Cup and the Olympic Games, but not tremendous sports fanatic. But it is the opportunity where the world sort of shines a spotlight on that particular country. And I figured, what better opportunity to take to sort of leverage my knowledge of Brazil, my knowledge of the US and this wonderful new business degree in tourism. So let's go.

Jason Elkins (21:40.952)
I'm curious, were you considering, like when you were younger, maybe a teenager, did you ever think, yeah, someday I'm moving back to Brazil?

Mikael Castro (21:47.94)
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I don't know, Brazilians have this. We have this, most people do, but this tremendous passion for our country. Brazil is an incredible country with this unique identity. Whether you're from the south of Brazil, the north of Brazil, everybody identifies extremely sort of Brazilian, right? You have other countries in the world where you have different ethnicities and subgroups and subcultures.

But Brazil is very united. We're the only sort of Portuguese speaking country in all of Latin America. And so we have this tremendous identity around our language, our sport of football, soccer, of course, the music throughout Brazil. So there's this national identity, which I've had always as a child, throughout the years as we were growing up in the US.

in the summers we would go travel somewhere fun like Africa or Indonesia, but half of the summer we would spend back in Brazil and so that really sort of cultivated this national identity that I have as a Brazilian. I consider myself foremost first Brazilian, then American, and then third French in

Jason Elkins (22:59.428)
All

Okay, and well, I guess we got to touch on that. Why French?

Mikael Castro (23:07.584)
it's just, I mean, if I get into the heritage of my family and sort of just start drawing it out, I think it would take the rest of the podcast. But let's just go, wait, we have, there's a family, my grandmother on my father's side. He was born in Rome, my mom born in New York. I mean, it's all over the place. But it gives me that sense of being part of this, being a global citizen, if you

Jason Elkins (23:08.537)
Hehehe.

Jason Elkins (23:13.05)
Okay, okay. There's a family connection.

Jason Elkins (23:23.032)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (23:32.162)
Yeah, no, you're right. I spent quite a bit of time in Colombia and I meet people here all the time that ask me, you know, where I'm from and I, well, okay, I'm from the U S but, and then I say soy paisa. So the region around Medellin is, know, there are paisas that live here and I'm soy paisa. I'm paisa in my heart. I'm a paisa from the United States, but I just, I connect with the culture and I have that sense of this, this is home so I can see how that can happen.

And I don't have any family connections to Columbia, but I've got an emotional heartfelt connection to Columbia. And so I can, I can appreciate that. How about your wife?

Mikael Castro (24:09.424)
And that's sort of how I feel about being a carioca. So I've been here in Rio for, it's now going to be 11 years. And I wasn't born in Rio as a carioca. I was born in Sao Paulo, but I can certainly identify with some of the lifestyle that Rio has. And to me, what shines about Rio is

natural beauty. I see Rio as this playground of, you know, places to explore on the weekend, whether it's mountain biking in the Chizuka forest or going, you know, stand up paddleboarding on the lagoon or out in the ocean, or in fact, you know, seeing whales. It's incredible the opportunity to interact with nature here in Rio. And I think it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. So I love living

Jason Elkins (25:04.706)
I'm, I'm, I think we need to go a little further on that because I'm curious. I believe that a lot of people that hadn't haven't been to Brazil. They have a very clear picture of what they imagine Rio de Janeiro being all about. And I suspect that the picture I've never been to Rio, I've been to Brazil, but I've never been to Rio. So I'm curious, what's like, what are the surprises that people have maybe clients that you're working with

Outbound tour operators when they come visit to do fam trips the first time, what are the big surprises that they come away with after visiting

Mikael Castro (25:35.404)
I'm very excited to answer that question, but first I'm gonna turn it back to you. What is the connotation of someone of Rio for someone that hasn't been? know, what are the few words, give me like three words that come out when you think of

Jason Elkins (25:42.382)
haha.

Jason Elkins (25:49.86)
beaches, bikinis, and trying to think of something with a B, just parties. That's my view of Rio. I don't think of it as a place that would be a good fit for me, but I'm also very, very open -minded. And I'm much more open -minded than most people with my background. So yeah, what do you

Mikael Castro (25:56.687)
Hahaha

Mikael Castro (26:14.83)
Well, I think that's exactly it. And a lot of people have that same connotation, right? It's football, beaches, bikinis, samba, carnival. Those are the words that come out. And of course, yes, Rio has a lot of that. But to me, Rio is a lot more nature, beauty, ocean, rainforest, incredible landscape, friendly people. And those are the elements that we often

have as sort of feedback from guests that experience Rio and said, wow, this is incredible. I had no idea Rio was this beautiful. I had no idea you could see monkeys just in the backyard or go climb on waterfalls just 20 minutes from the hotel of Copacabana. So those are the elements that people really get surprised about, whether it's

going sailing on the bay, or even whale watching, which it's now whale season, so I've been very excited about the humpback whales that are along our coastline. And there are many different sort of adventure and adventure experiences that you can have in the outdoors of Rio. Rio is a very outdoorsy city in

Jason Elkins (27:31.898)
So what I hear you saying is if somebody has never been to Brazil, maybe hasn't even been to Latin America, but is really into the ecotourism, the nature part of it, maybe the culture. I know there's a lot of culture there. Everything you've just mentioned, sounds like somebody, if somebody just said, I'm just gonna go to Rio and spend two weeks in Rio, can they incorporate

big majority of the things that they might want to see in South America right there in Rio or is it always like, you should spend a few days here in Rio and then go to Amazon or, or some other

Mikael Castro (28:08.24)
I mean, that begins a whole different conversation of Brazil as a whole, which I think is interesting, Jason, because a lot of people ask me the question, well, how long does it take to visit Brazil? And I have to throw it back to them and say, well, how long does it take to visit the 48 continental states? It's the same geographical size. It's huge. Brazil is a tremendously big country. And there are lots.

Jason Elkins (28:11.818)
I know.

Mikael Castro (28:34.946)
of different places to see. So of course Rio is one of those must see cities and experiences, but so is Iguazu Falls, which is I think a must, a beautiful force of nature between Brazil and Argentina. But as you mentioned, the Amazon, Salvador, the Pantanal, and I think what sort of drawing us back to the conversation of a DMC and why I really

sort of dug my heels in here is because I noticed that everybody had this very shallow connotation of what Brazil was like, right? Rio and Iguazú Falls, and then that's it. Or at most, Rio, Iguazú Falls, maybe the Amazon. But to me, Brazil is so much more. There are so many more opportunities to have interactions with nature, with wildlife. So

Jason Elkins (29:21.56)
Mm

Mikael Castro (29:33.688)
Evercome in Kent, we set up the Marco Polo journeys, which is this incredible trip from the Amazon to the Pantanal, which is one of the only places in the world where you can see jaguars in the wild. And then you end in Iguazu Falls. So you don't even go to Rio. You can as an extension, but it's a whole different itinerary where you're going beyond sort of the beaten path. And of course,

We have other opportunities to explore history and culture in Salvador, which to me is the heart and soul of Brazil, where you see the music, the heritage, all sort of come together in telling the story of Brazil's history. So it just goes on and on. And that's why I think there's a tremendous future in sustainable travel in Brazil.

Jason Elkins (30:27.45)
Yeah, very cool. I can see the look on your face. The listeners maybe aren't able to see your face right now because they're just listening to a podcast, but I can see your eyes light up. This is not like somebody who, okay, I want to work in tourism. Where should I, where's the hot place? there's a couple sporting events coming up. I should go there because there's going to be a lot of business or I can tell you're super, super passionate about this. And, and I, I just enjoy that. So just want to mention that for anybody that's listening, listening to this.

I don't know the answer to my question, so I'm going to ask you. feel like maybe I should, but why Marco Polo? What's the connection between Marco Polo and

Mikael Castro (31:03.808)
It's just one of the sort of brand itineraries that we have, sort of the group of products that we have with Abercrombie and Kent in the United States. It's more of the explorer type of itinerary, right? A little bit off the beaten path, as you will. So that's why we put it in sort of that product line. It's not one of your regular luxury small group journeys.

which we have as well with Evercompi and Kent in the US. But that's more of your standard itinerary, right? So I'll get into that. That's exploring São Paulo. And then from São Paulo, we go to Salvador and you get to see sort of the history and the culture of Brazil through song, through food. And then Iguaçu Falls, which is definitely a must. And then of course, in that itinerary, we end in Rio. So it's a little bit more of scratching the surface.

It is a full Brazil itinerary, but that's sort of just the Brazil 101 if you will and then after that you have to go to the Amazon you have to See the Pantanal you have to go further up north to link soy's money agencies. I don't know. you ever heard of that place?

Jason Elkins (32:17.826)
Lengsoys merienses? No. Tell me more.

Mikael Castro (32:22.384)
Wow, incredible. Okay, look it up. Maybe we can add it in the notes of how you spell it. But yeah, but Lincois Maranhenses is a national park in the northern part of Brazil in the state of Maranhão. And it's basically sand dunes with freshwater lagoons in between. Incredible landscape, beautiful place to go on a vacation. And what we're seeing is, you know, people

Jason Elkins (32:28.334)
We'll put something in the show notes, okay.

Mikael Castro (32:52.08)
In luxury travel, right, people that want to go a little bit off the beaten path, they want to have a sense of place. They don't want to necessarily fly and flop. Some do, but we cater to the ones that don't want to fly and flop into a resort that want to have a little bit more of a transformative travel experience. So think about going to Lingxiaozhuangnianzhi where you have these incredible sand dunes with freshwater lagoons with a family, with teenagers that...

Yeah, you're gonna be in the sun. Yeah, you're gonna be in the sand, but it's about a four by four adventure. It's about sand, you know, sandboarding down in on the lagoon into a or down the sand dune into a lagoon or zip lining it or, you know, driving UTVs all up and down it. So there are many different sort of adventure options and people hardly know that this exists in Brazil. And when I figured that out, I said, gosh, I have to be in this space. I have

do my part in sharing these amazing experiences that Brazil has.

Jason Elkins (33:51.986)
Yeah, I actually, now that you've described it, I did meet it. I was in Africa for a adventure travel trade association show and, met an operator from the area and she had shown me some photos and it's absolutely beautiful. It's very cool and different, you know, just it's different than something you're going to see in most places. which is very cool. So I'm curious. Okay. I'm curious about a lot of things trying to, I, one thing I did want to touch on, I want to come back to you real quick.

Was, was your wife like picking up and moving to Brazil? Was she, was her family have Brazilian history or was this just a totally different change for her? What was that

Mikael Castro (34:32.984)
No, that's a good question. She's also Brazilian. She's also Brazilian. And so it was a good move for her as well. We were sort of settled and ready to be unsettled again, living in the US. So we had projected, let's move somewhere, somewhere abroad.

Jason Elkins (34:34.83)
From your perspective. Okay.

Mikael Castro (34:54.948)
And this opportunity came up for Brazil. at first, she arrived here in Rio, was like, all right, I'm going to teach English or do something. And I said, no, don't teach English. You're yoga instructor. Do that. And so I said, take the time to sort of develop the relationships it needs. And then she became, you

the yoga teacher here of lots of the famous celebrities and did really, really well with that and has also sort of loved living in Rio. And in fact, now it's developed into a tremendous profession for her. She's now doing trainings for yoga teachers in sort of the business of being a yoga instructor and really valuing that profession. So very proud of her and her trajectory. And I think the courage

moving and just changing everything around is something very commendable. a lot of that comes from

Jason Elkins (35:58.264)
Yeah, absolutely. And you said you've got two daughters?

Mikael Castro (36:02.148)
Yes, two wonderful daughters. They are both Cariocas for sure, which means that they have a slight accent of the way that they speak in Portuguese. So Bella, who just turned three, and Jolie, who is six, going on to

Jason Elkins (36:19.542)
Wow. Very cool. So what are your, maybe they'll listen to this someday. So I need to ask you, what are your dreams for them as far as working in something, you know, travel or traveling around? mean, what, what are kind of your, your ideas that you have in your head? I know. And I'm sure you're to say, I want them to be happy, do whatever they want to do, but I've got, I've got kids as

Mikael Castro (36:40.154)
That's a tough question, Jason. I didn't expect this one. So I'm definitely not prepared. You know, we of course always want the best for them, for our children. And quite honestly, I reflect on this, you know, frequently. And I think a lot of the world is changing today. So with the onset of artificial intelligence,

with everything changing in the world in terms of how they are going to go through education, how they're gonna deal with social media, how they're gonna deal with artificial intelligence. I was thinking the other day, is my daughter even gonna learn how to drive or are all the cars gonna be carless or motor driverless, sorry. So, you when you reflect on that, she's only seven. So we're talking about maybe 10 years. Okay, she'll probably learn how to drive, but how about the three -year -old? I don't know.

Jason Elkins (37:22.65)
driverless.

Mikael Castro (37:35.116)
So it's hard to think about what it's gonna be like when they're adults. And I keep coming back to personal connections with people around the world. And that seems to be sort of the most important is learning how to interact with people from different walks of life. That's what travel to me is all about, is having that flexibility to understand someone that's different than you, that has different beliefs.

that openness to drive dialogue with those people. That's why we get out of our comfort bubble and go explore in a different place of the world and actually have interactions with people. That's also what we want to create when people come and visit Brazil is to have this authentic interaction with someone that's local that maybe thinks differently. And that's okay. And that's how we all learn and grow,

Jason Elkins (38:24.632)
You know, right, right. And it's, so interesting because I think if you think of the stereotypical parents, maybe in the U S I can maybe connect with that a little bit more. My parents were not stereotypical, but I, kind of, I understand the culture a little bit that it's a lot of don't talk to strangers. You know, it's just pretty much I can stop there. It's this don't talk to strangers, stranger danger, all these things that we teach our kids. And I say,

I like to think I don't, but that we teach our kids as a society. And then you and I are having this conversation about going out and having dialogue and starting conversations and learning about people with different backgrounds and different histories and this and that. And obviously you grew up in that. I can't imagine your parents ever saying, don't talk to strangers. They might've tried to teach you some common sense about.

You know, don't talk to the guy that's drooling at the mouth and you know, dragging his knuckles on the ground. But I suspect they very seldom said to you, Mikael, quit talking to him or quit talking to her. And a lot of people were raised that way. And I suspect that so I guess I just wanted to kind of comment on that a little bit. What thoughts come up for

Mikael Castro (39:37.422)
Well, I think you've nailed it there, Jason. And what I see today from the DMC perspective, hosting guests in Brazil and hosting luxury guests in different places of the world, is that these travelers want interactions with local people. In fact, I think we're in a time now where people feel more lonely than they have ever felt before. And so when the luxury traveler

has that leisure time to stop their work or give it a light pause, if you will, and go explore a different corner of the world. In fact, what they're urging for, they really want is to be able to connect with someone. And so what I see the DMC, the tour operators responsibility is to create the conditions for true authentic interactions with people, where people really get to share

what it's like, what are the different opportunities that they have to be together. I'll give you an example and a story which moved me recently. We had a guest come and visit one of our philanthropy projects here in Rio. And this philanthropy project started with a personal connection that I had with my wife before we had our kids. We would go up to the Fiji Gulf of Ella.

Just, you know, it's one of those picturesque mountains, you know, in the backdrop of Ipanema. And we would go up there for sushi. They have a really great sushi place. And then I would hear this young girl who was always drumming outside of the restaurant. She would drum first on buckets. And then she acquired some real samba drums. And every time we would go, there would be more kids

were around her and would ask her to teach them how to play. So of course I befriended her and developed a relationship and started to sort of follow and support her and said, you know, it'd be really cool if some of the guests could see you play. You know, it's incredible what you do. And years and years went by and we started taking guests there and she just continued to flourish and dream

Mikael Castro (41:59.03)
And she comes from a very tough background. Her mom was incarcerated. She never really had a dad. She was raised by her grandmother who never went through school. Everything indicated that she was gonna be, have all the challenges of life and could go in all the wrong directions. And through her willpower, also through a lot of these inspiration of the connections with travelers that would come and visit

She developed this little school or big school now of teaching local youth how to play these samba drums. And it's incredible. One guest recently visited her through our project and was so inspired, so moved by everything that she's developed. She just said, what can I do to help you? And

and Izzy's Maria, her project Batuca Vigi, she said, you know what? I dream of having a school, actual building where I can keep the drums, where I can teach the kids English. And our guest just said, all right, how much is it? I'll pay for it. And last time I was there just a couple of weeks ago, I visited the spot and was definitely moved to tears.

Jason Elkins (43:16.408)
Wow.

Mikael Castro (43:24.366)
you know, when she told the story to guests that we were with, it was just like incredible how travel offers the opportunity to transform people's lives.

Jason Elkins (43:34.968)
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've got tears in my eyes just listening to you, Michael. So thank you for sharing that. That's and you're absolutely right. I imagine there's so many beautiful places in the world, but I honestly don't want to go there and see them by myself. You know, you can drop me in the most beautiful place in the world. And if I'm there by myself, I'm like, here's, you know, I, it's almost like I can't share it. can't, well, you, I can't share the experience and if I can't share it, then it's almost for me.

It's all about the shared experience. Sometimes that's with other travelers. So it might be other, you know, might be guests if I'm leading a group trip or might be people in my family I'm traveling with. but oftentimes it's the locals. Cause they're just, there's just so, so many interesting things to learn about and see with them. And it can just be a smile. You know, I was in, I was in Bali and I decided to walk home from this place I'd gone just because I always see more things when I walk.

And I found some little street food vendors and walked over and there's this gal picking out some food and I had no idea what I was looking at. So I just kind of communicated with her to maybe she could tell me what she's eating. Cause if she likes it, I'll probably like it. So she helped me order a plate of the same food she was having. And I paid for dinner and she's like, no, she didn't want me to do that. And I said, no, it's a guide fee.

You're guiding me. You're helping teach me about your culture. so she was great. And she wanted to take a selfie with me. So we took the selfie. And then, of course, I took my phone. We took the picture. And in the picture on my phone, I could see her phone in her hand. And I could see the picture she had just taken of me and her on her phone. And just something about it when I look at that picture. And I can see on her phone the photo of her and

on the picture of her and I together. was just something about that. And that was just a brief little interaction that left a mark on me. I don't know if it did on her. Hopefully I represented, you know, the American tourist well. But I think these connections can be had if you put yourself in those places and get off the big buses, you know, or the big cruise ships where you're just traveling with a bunch of people that basically have a similar background as you. And it's just a matter of just getting off the bus or getting

Jason Elkins (45:57.07)
you know, just connecting with people. It's super important. I think it's super important. And I know that that's exactly what you guys are really focused on doing,

Mikael Castro (46:04.376)
Yeah, I think it's about sharing a meal, as you mentioned. Many times, it's just facilitating that being able to share a meal with someone that lives there and let the conversation take it where it goes. So we also facilitate those moments. I think that's part of it. There's so much that can be said about sharing a meal with someone local or playing a soccer game. have to say, soccer is one of the...

Jason Elkins (46:07.608)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Mikael Castro (46:32.908)
international connectors. I bet that many families have the story to tell where they were abroad. And the moment that the kids played soccer with the local kids was one of the highlights of their trip. And it's so true because there's no language barrier. We're all humans at the end of the day. And soccer is soccer wherever or football wherever you go in the world.

Jason Elkins (46:48.132)
Hmm?

Jason Elkins (47:02.404)
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I, my, my son was with me in Mexico and we found a German couple that were running the Airbnb we're staying at. their kids came out and took went for a with Jackson and they found some other Mexican kids and they were all playing soccer. My kid can't play soccer. He's from the U S it's not a natural thing for him, but the connection was there, you know, and it was just so much fun to see that. And everywhere I see that either in my kids or other people, or just, you know, the,

the connections and food, you're right. Food is, food is really powerful. Just sitting across from somebody. Like we talk about facilitating these experiences and it's great to have the facilitation and anybody that's listening to this that doesn't have somebody like, know, on your team to facilitate that just literally just go somewhere and just find food and just sit down, sit down as close to the food as you can at a table that's big enough that someone else will come sit down with

And the connection just happens. It's I've seen that so many times in Malaysia. Last time I was in Malaysia, the sitting in this little soup kitchen, I think they I noodle noodle place. I can't remember what they call that type of thing, but just at a big group table, there are 20 people sitting there and these guys across from me. This kid, this guy was like 20 and lived over in, I guess, eastern Malaysia. So on a totally different place.

And he'd been over there working on a date on a Palm oil farm, fixing tractors. And he'd been there for three months and he was excited because he's going home the next day. So we're having this conversation about missing his family. And that was the first trip he'd ever taken outside of Eastern Malaysia and just had this amazing conversation. and, and they got up to leave and I shook their hands and then probably 30 seconds later, the lady taps me on my shoulder and points at them and says, they bought your lunch.

You know, and it's like I'm 50. I had a 20 year old kid sit across the table from me and tell me about his first trip. And I've been to 30 some countries and not not that that's a bragging thing, but it's like for him to decide to buy me lunch. That was a connection, you know, and so we got up and took the pictures before they left and just to remind myself of the connection. But food is such a powerful

Mikael Castro (49:28.176)
Food is, and I think, you know, it's food, it's sports, but also the interaction with locals and guides included, you know, it's a way of seeing, of having a steward for that particular destination or that environment. And that's something that we see often as well, you know, when one of our guides presents the Amazon or the Pantanal,

They are stewards of that biome, of that location, and they're presenting it also with the element of how these guests that are visiting can help protect it. And that's something that's super important to me as well, is making sure that with every visit, not only do we have very few negative impacts, but that the net positive impact of every traveler is felt and seen in the local community.

in the local environment as well. And few people realize this, but Brazil is a incredible destination for sustainable travel. The word sustainability in general has, people are using more regenerative travel or ecotourism change to sustainable tourism to regenerative, whatever you wanna call it. To me, it's about traveling where you leave a positive impact.

And I think Brazil is an incredible destination for that because as a whole, the country is moving towards sustainability in a very general way as well. I'll just cite it like this. To think about Brazil's energy sources, right? Brazil today has anywhere between 83 and I think

most recent numbers, 93 % of its energy comes from renewable resources. The country, the entire country, and we have a large country. When you look at the global average, then you're looking at 25 % of countries have renewable, 25 % of countries use renewable resources, or 25 % of the resources that they use are renewable. Let's put it that way.

Mikael Castro (51:48.73)
So that's the average, and Brazil is way above the average. In the G20, I mention this because the G20 meeting is coming up here in Rio in November. And this is one of the themes that Brazil wants to get out to the world, which is we, in fact, are leading the way for the larger economies in the world of decarbonizing our economy, decarbonizing our general country. So to

in the 90s in terms of the percentage of renewable resources that we use in our country is incredible. So that's definitely something to keep in mind as guests are choosing their destinations and they want to be sustainable. Look at how sustainable the country is itself.

Jason Elkins (52:35.096)
Yeah. is the, what's the larger, is that mostly hide? I'm just trying to guess. Is that mostly hydro solar? What's, what's the biggest sources of renewable?

Mikael Castro (52:45.551)
Good guesses, Jason. Over 50 % is hydro. So yeah, that comes from water power, if you will, dams. And then it's a good mix of solar and a lot of wind. We have a lot of wind farms in the northeastern part of Brazil, great kite surfing destinations. So they figured, why don't we put up some wind turbines here by the dunes and some solar panels as well.

And there you go, you have a lot of natural resources being generated.

Jason Elkins (53:17.144)
Interesting. Do you think, do you feel like the typical Brazilian takes great pride in that? I mean, is that something like they're all kind of on board? Like, yeah, Brazil's really good about using this renewable resources, or is it something that most people just kind of are going to worry about? They're just dealing with their lives.

Mikael Castro (53:32.698)
They're just dealing, I don't think they know. Few people really put these numbers into perspective that we are so forward in terms of the goals that most developed economies have in terms of decarbonizing their economies. We're way past those. But few people in Brazil really see that as, understand that or see that as a point of pride. We're just trying to get through the day by day.

But there is tremendous pride in the natural resources that we have as a country, That many people know that the largest part of the Amazon is definitely in Brazil, and that we have five, the different biomes, the different sort of natural resources that Brazil has. Brazilians are very proud of those.

Jason Elkins (54:22.158)
I'm curious about, so speaking about Brazilians, their pride, their awareness of the natural resources. And you were also speaking about facilitating connections, your tour leaders, your, you know, smaller tour operators, your partners, and your guides. What does, guess what's the biggest challenge? No, I think where I want to go with this is the typical guide that is dealing with your clients. Did they get into guiding because it was the best job on the block?

As far as financial reward, or did they get into guiding because they're passionate about guiding or tell me, give me some kind of information about what the typical guide, what their background is and why they're doing

Mikael Castro (55:07.76)
That's a good question, Jason. You know, we have local guides throughout Brazil and many of them, I think, got into guiding because a lot of the language, right? Once you have that language ability, speaking English or Spanish in the case of Brazil, you have that main skill set that gives you that opportunity in tourism. But to me, what we look for when identifying a good guide

someone that has that hospitality gene, right? Someone that not only is proud and knows how to tell a story and present their local destination, but they have that hospitality gene, which is, like to be the host and to receive you in my destination, in my city, in my country. So I think that is, you know, a clear sort of common denominator through the guides. And particularly the resident tour directors, the hosts

really travel around Brazil with our guests, those generally have very different backgrounds, right? And guiding is a compliment. So we have a professional photographer, we have a doctorate in literature, in history, in diaspora of cultures. We have several different sort of professions and they also have that hospitality gene. So they join all three and sort of lead

trips throughout Brazil and our guests always come back and say, know, what a wealth of knowledge, but also what a wonderful person to be with and to have as a host. And that's really, you know, I think what makes the difference. There's this wonderful quote, which I know many people that probably listen to this podcast know, which is from Maya Angelou, right? People will forget what you saw. They'll forget what you said, but they won't forget how you made them feel. And

Jason Elkins (57:02.328)
made them feel.

Mikael Castro (57:04.324)
That's what our guides really do, is to really help our guests feel the country. Not just see the attraction or tell them about the historical facts, but you have to feel

Jason Elkins (57:15.758)
Yeah. Yeah. Because if you don't have, I just think if you don't have that gene, I've never heard it called the hospitality gene, but I get it. And I think that trying to teach somebody to be a good guide, if they don't have that, man, they may logistically be very good. They may show up on time. They may drive the vehicle. Well, they may do a number of things, but if you don't have that hospitality gene, it's a couple of things. One is your guests probably aren't going to enjoy themselves as much.

But number two, they're not going to enjoy it because if you don't have the hospitality gene, you're not going to want to work with clients and guide people. think. Yeah, yeah. So very cool. We've discussed so many things, and I know that we could come back and do many, many more episodes, probably do a whole series of episodes just on Brazil, the people, the different cultures. But I appreciate you coming on, sharing your personal story as well, because that's really, think what makes it different. We've discussed, you know, connection.

Mikael Castro (57:51.62)
Yeah, and the best guides really love what they do. You're

Jason Elkins (58:15.03)
And that's what we're trying to create here is a connection. And I hope that some of our listeners feel a connection with you and will, you know, make efforts to either reach out. mean, you're a DMC, so you don't necessarily work directly with consumers, but I believe there's a lot of other people listening to the show as well. Travel agents, tour operators, and other people that, that would have a very specific reason to reach out with you and connect with you. we'll have the link to the website.

In the show notes and of course you're all over social media. know that's is there anything else you'd like to share? Want to make sure that you know any questions I forgot to ask should have asked or anything you want to make sure to share with our listeners before we wrap it

Mikael Castro (58:56.612)
Jason, I really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure to be on this podcast with you and to share a bit of my story. I think we could go on for hours. I'm gonna, for the sake of time, I won't continue the conversation with extra tangents that we could go on, but I highly appreciate it. It's always fun to share a little bit of the background from what creates these travel companies.

Jason Elkins (59:07.68)
You

Mikael Castro (59:25.102)
So I've listened to a lot of your podcasts before throughout, and they're always inspirational to understand how people get to where they are. So thank you so much for having me on and look forward to listening to your next episodes.

Jason Elkins (59:41.006)
Thank you for the beautiful words and encouragement and just sharing your time with us here today and look forward to collaborating on more projects with you together. Thanks, Matt

Mikael Castro (59:49.786)
Thank you, Jason.