Adventure Travel with Ant Kaschula - Private Guided Safaris

Area/Topic
Africa, Safaris, Conservation, Guiding

Ant Kaschula
Founder
Private Guided Safaris

I am a born & bred, fourth generation Zimbabwean who's professional guiding career spans more than two decades. I have travelled the length and breadth of the African continent and I have guided or lead safaris or expeditions in twenty-one different African countries.

As the holder of the most highly respected professional guiding qualification in the world coupled with a Masters degree in Ecology and interests ranging from Botany, Bushcrafts & Fly Fishing to Entomology & Recreational Flying, provides me with the background to impart an incredible breadth & depth of knowledge to my guests.

I am an ExCo member of the Zimbabwe Professional Guide's Association and am involved in ensuring the high levels of training and examining of the next generation of professional guides is maintained.

I have a ceaselessly questioning mind and as per one of my mentor’s sayings – have, eyes for seeing and not just looking, which means that very little goes undetected by my radar and no stone is left unturned in my quest to provide my guests with that 'perfect moment’.

In terms of being a specialist, I am most happy whilst leading walking safaris through big game areas and particularly enjoy spending time with elephants on foot.

Having had the privilege of spending much of my adult life exploring the continent’s wildest landscapes, what has become more and more apparent are the threats faced by these rapidly diminishing refuges. Truly passionate and dedicated to the long term safeguarding of these areas, I tend to direct my support, and that of some of my  philanthropic guests, towards protected areas which are managed by organizations that are moving the needle in terms of protecting Africa’s remaining wild spaces.

https://www.privateguidedsafaris.com/

summary
Ant Kaschula, founder of Private Guided Safaris, shares his journey and passion for the African wilderness. He explains why he chose the name Private Guided Safaris instead of using his own name, highlighting the importance of providing a high level of service rather than focusing on an individual. Ant discusses his early experiences in the bush and how they shaped his career as a safari guide. He also talks about the boarding school experience and the strong bonds formed with friends during that time. Ant emphasizes the unique opportunities for walking safaris in Zimbabwe and the intimate and personal experiences they offer. Ant Kaschula emphasizes the importance of having a private guide on a safari trip, as they provide personalized service and create a unique and unforgettable experience. He highlights the value of staying in remote and exclusive locations, where guests can have a more intimate and authentic wildlife encounter. Ant also discusses the benefits of direct communication between the travel agent, the guide, and the clients, as it allows for better coordination and customization of the itinerary. He encourages travelers to be open-minded and trust the expertise of their guide when planning their safari adventure.

takeaways

• Choosing a business name that focuses on providing a high level of service rather than an individual can be beneficial for future growth and scalability.
• Early experiences in the bush can have a profound impact on shaping a career in safari guiding.
• Boarding school can provide unique opportunities for personal growth and strong friendships.
• Zimbabwe offers exceptional opportunities for wal

Learn more about the Big World Made Small Podcast and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers at bigworldmadesmall.com.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Super excited today. We've got Ant Kaschula. Ant is the founder of Private Guided Safaris. And right before I pushed the record button, we were having a whole conversation about the name of the business. And I said, stop, let me hit the record button. We'll continue this. So Ant, you were explaining to me why you decided to go with Private Guided Safaris instead of Ant's Safaris or something like that. So tell me more about

Ant Kaschula (00:29)
Yeah, so yeah, thank you Jason and really great to be here. Really looking forward to our catch up and yeah, so basically what ended up happening was when I started my guide apprenticeship, I was doing it under an incredibly dynamic and a real mover and a shaker of an individual and a guy whose business was called after his own name. And when I then looked at as he was creating the business and a number of other guides are doing the same, I realized

All of them were named after their own name. And I kind of thought, well, 20, 30 years on, when I want to kind grow my business and get a bunch of other private guides in helping me and guide some of my guests and their families and referrals and all that lot, if my business was called Ant Kishuna Safaris and someone was now booked onto that trip and Ant Kishuna didn't rock up, there could be a bit of a problem. So I just thought,

Yeah, let me just do that and then ultimately what we're looking at is providing a service, providing a very high level of service rather than an individual. And so that's how it was.

Jason Elkins (01:35)
Yeah.

I think that's smart. think you looked into the future. It's also really hard to sell a business when it's named after yourself. You know, when you get to that point, you want to retire. It's it makes it really hard to kind of sell a business because some guy named Bob Smith probably isn't going to want to buy Ant Koshula's safaris. That's going to be that's going to be a tough one. So you're a smart guy.

Ant Kaschula (01:55)
Absolutely. But the crazy thing is, yeah, 25 years later, I still haven't yet actually just kind of taken the leap and got a whole bunch of guides guiding for me. There are a few guys here and there, but ultimately, it's still mostly me and my wife. It's a small family -run business. But it's worked and it's working, so we're still here.

Jason Elkins (02:19)
Yeah, yeah, very cool. was just on your website here a little bit before we got started. And it's great. You've got beautiful photos. But yeah, you're definitely mixed in there. Your name's mixed in there a few times, a few pictures of you. my feedback looking at the website, if I reached out to you to book a trip and you said, I'm going to have you with so and so up in such and such place, I wouldn't feel like I had the.

bait and switch or anything like that. So I think you've done pretty good job with your messaging. So we're going to.

Ant Kaschula (02:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, thanks, Jason. I have to say, mentioning my website very quickly, that's also something that I'm quite guilty of just having put very little effort into. I the last time I updated it must have been five to maybe seven years ago, something crazy like that. And again, our business is all word of mouth, it's all referrals. And we're just so busy all the time. We just don't actually have the time to go and

put up a new kick -ass website as we see just so many businesses as technology and things are growing and all that kind of stuff. I kind of pull my website up and I'm like, wow, that was pretty cutting edge five years ago, but ooh, it needs a lick of paint.

Jason Elkins (03:30)
Well, as you know, it's my business is adventure travel marketing .com. Big world's made small adventure travel marketing. So when you're ready, I'd be happy to jump in and help. And that being said, it looks great, number one. And number two, I think you can get away without making a lot of updates as long as you don't have date specific stuff on there. Because there's a lot of there's a lot of your competitors out there that are advertising their Rwanda gorilla track or whatever.

Um, with the 2014 rates and yeah, at least you don't have rates and dates on there, so you can get away with it. You're doing good. Um, and we're going to, we're going to speak more about business. We're definitely going to speak about Africa because I know it's your passion and, I also want to know more about your story. Cause I think our listeners, know, they can, they can research trips. can research places pretty easy, but I feel like this space, it's really a lot about connections with people.

Ant Kaschula (04:01)
What? Yeah.

Yeah.

Jason Elkins (04:27)
So yeah, maybe they go to Africa to see the animals, but I know that it's the connection with the people that bring them back. And I've been a couple of times. So I want to give our listeners an opportunity to kind of really connect with you through your voice here on the podcast. And I think they're curious. This is going to be basically the same conversation that you have with your guests when you're sitting there after a day in the field and you're having...

a scotch or dinner or whatever. And those questions start at, how did you get into this? What were you doing before this? da da da da, all these questions. So that's basically how the conversation we're going to have. So let's start with, how did you get from where you were to where you are now? And we can go back as far in history as you think is relevant.

Ant Kaschula (04:57)
Yeah.

Well Jason, it's been quite a journey for me but I have to say I've been incredibly, I don't know if the word is fortunate or blessed or lucky or whatever the case is, but from a very young age I knew that the wild outdoors and the wild spaces of Africa is where I wanted to spend my life. And I was fortunate that my father had spent a lot of time in the bush when he was much younger.

And then when we moved from Zimbabwe actually to Johannesburg when I was a small boy, was two years old, we moved to Johannesburg, a huge big city. My dad had been offered a very, very good position there in broadcasting some of the first native African TV channels and all of that with his ability to speak local African languages very well and that side of things. And so anyhow, we would often come back to Zimbabwe on holidays.

into the bush and up to the Zambezi Valley and things like that. And it's interesting, it actually the film out of Africa. When that came out, when mum and dad saw that film, they looked at one another and said, well, what are we doing in this huge big city, Johannesburg? Yes, it's been a good job for my father, but as a family, was it the best thing for the family? And they decided that going back home to Zimbabwe was something they really wanted to

As children we were absolutely delighted and so we came back to Zimbabwe and we were able to spend more time in these big wild open areas. And so for me a very formative experience for me was I must have probably been about 10 or 11 years old but there was a safari camp that basically in the off season would take groups of children, would come for a week long kind of adventure

On the school notice board I saw this little thing offering that there was this trip going and there was talk of the Zambezi River and fishing and tracking and learning about birds and animals and all that side of things. I went to my mum and said, please mum, can I go on this? It was a fairly expensive trip at the time or to a 10 year old so it did. She spoke to my dad and they gave the go ahead to do that.

A whole bunch of us kids were literally put in the back of a three and a half ton lorry with wooden benches on the sides. No seat belts, no health and safety, all of that lot. And literally with our backpacks thrown in and up we went. And it was a week that I had the most unbelievable time there. There were professional guides at the time. I didn't know what a professional guide was, but there were a number of professional guides and there was actually an individual, a guy called Troy Williamson.

who was this yeah to a little child of that age was just this huge big burly guy with these long golden kind of long hair and just muscle muscled up and wearing his khaki kind of clothes and all that and it appeared that he knew every single bird bird call animal soundtrack the whole lot and that week that I spent out in the bush I remember learning my first bird was a lilac -breasted roller my

was a Wythorn Torchwood. was just absolutely like a pig in muck over the course of this week. And I came away from that trip having been really transformed to the fact that actually there were safari camps out there. I came from a family where we didn't have the kind of disposable income to go and stay in these nice tented camps and lodges and hotels and things like

We would go out camping and just go in a two -wheel drive pickup because of my dad's interest in the bush. It wasn't something that my mom was so keen on. But anyhow, that trip I just came away from it and it just kind of set me on course for what I've ultimately done for the rest of my career. And then I went to a boarding school.

Jason Elkins (09:20)
Did you come back? I was going to ask you, did you come back from that trip already knowing I want to be like, I think the guy's name was Troy. I want to be like Troy. I want to be a safari. I want to be a bush guy. Did you already know that? Yeah, very cool.

Ant Kaschula (09:29)
Yes

Yes, straight away. Ten years old, I came back from the Metro, I said, that's who I want to be like. That man and that dude, he was like God. was just unbelievable. What is just so sad is he was very tragically killed in a car accident of all crazy things. Quite a few years later, but this guy was just fearless. He would spearfish in the Zambezi River. You look at the life that someone like that led.

But anyhow, Troy, if I look at it, he was the person who ultimately had a very big influence in terms of what I've done with my life today and that trip and just his passion, his enthusiasm, his knowledge, all of that just rubbed off.

Jason Elkins (10:22)
Well, quite a legacy, a legacy to speak of him passing and who he was, but boy, he really left a legacy, did I'm sitting here looking at his legacy. And as you're, as you're talking about him, it's a reminder of how much influence we can have on people. I'm sure there's many other people that Troy spent time with as well. And realistically, I'm sure there's many people that you spend time with as well, that you're having the same influence. Have you run into some, have you had opportunities to engage with younger?

with children and inspire them? Do you know anybody that you've spent time in the bush with? I'm sure, right?

Ant Kaschula (10:54)
Yes, very much so. A number of youngsters and seeing them come up through the ranks and eventually qualify and all that has been hugely rewarding. Yeah, absolutely, Jason.

Jason Elkins (11:12)
What did your parents think when you came home and said, want to be like Troy, I want to be a Bush guide. Was that did your family support that idea or were they like, I knew we shouldn't have sent him on that trip.

Ant Kaschula (11:21)
Yes, yes. Yeah, well, interesting is I came back from that trip and afterwards there was a whole slide presentation that parents were told what their kids did and this and that the other and there was actually a prize that was given for the child who I know contributed the most or learned the most or whatever it was but I actually ended up getting that prize which was a book which had my name written in it and all that lot so

I coming back from that trip it wasn't like well we sent little Anthony on this trip and he had a good time and he's come back he's like wow he really flourished and he absolutely loved it and they'd always known that I had an interest in the bush but coming back from that was certainly I think my parents and certainly my dad he certainly was the one who I think instilled an interest and a real enthusiasm in the bush a lot and

I look at my dad probably looking back and saying, hey, that was actually probably money pretty well spent because the time that we have now spent together in the bush over the years, this is now a very long time since then. But it's somewhere we've really enjoyed family time together. And my children as well now. I look at our daughter Tassia, she's 13. She went on her first safari when she was nine weeks old. So yeah, so all of our kids

Yeah, they can't get enough of being on safari and being out in the wilds of Africa.

Jason Elkins (12:51)
I'm curious because I definitely got the sense that the parents were supportive, but I'm just always fascinated by that moment when somebody says, okay, this is what I'm gonna do. Whether that's they drop out of school and buy a one -way ticket somewhere or they decide at the age of 10. Do you remember, were there ever moments that your mom or your dad said, you know, we always had hoped you'd be a doctor or a lawyer or an accountant?

Are you sure you really want to do this? Did you ever have those moments or was it just from the age of 10? It's like, okay, go get

Ant Kaschula (13:24)
When was 10, I said this is what I want to I don't think any of my parents ever dissuaded me from that. It goes further to the fact that I was at a boarding school. I was at day school for junior school. A friend mine at the time, his older brother, was at a boarding school outside of town. When I heard that this boarding school had its own game park, I think at the time we had 62 different sports and activities to choose

We had a club, had archery, we had a snake club, we had conservation club, and then we had everything in between. We had a falconry club, I'm not sure if I mentioned. And so when I heard about this, I'm like, I wanna go to Peterhouse. That's a school that I wanna go to. And so my mom at the time, I think she was quite horrified. She was like, well, what have I done wrong? Why do you 13 years

Jason Elkins (13:55)
I like

No, yeah, that's cool.

You want to go to boarding school?

Ant Kaschula (14:17)
you want to leave home and go to boarding school. I'm like well look at what the school's got. My mom is going be living with my friends and I'm going to be... We had Mountain Biking Club. There was nothing that school didn't have and I was just... and I just absolutely thrived and just really loved that. And then again my career later on was quite heavily influenced by going to that school and some of the people that I met there and the school trips that we had. We had school trips.

all over the place to Gonrojo National Park, which is again a national park where I've spent a huge amount of time and it's kind of almost become the center of the universe for me and my family. That was all part of going on one of these school expeditions. We went to Matusa on a national park, we went all over the place. And so

Jason Elkins (15:01)
Were there other kids that you were going to school with that also became guides or do you know?

Ant Kaschula (15:08)
So not in my year, but subsequently a couple of years later a number of them have. There was actually one boy who was probably about three years older than me. We went on one of these school trips and he then later also ended up becoming a guide here.

Jason Elkins (15:26)
Did you feel like you were unique in the sense that, I mean, when I hear of going to boarding school and kind of your mom's response to that, I get it. Cause I remember when I was younger, boarding school was a threat, honestly, in my family. It's like, if you don't shape up, we're going to ship you away to, it actually wasn't the boarding school that my mom would say. She'd said the boys school, which is a little different than the boarding school. The state of Wyoming boys schools for kids that really were really in trouble.

Ant Kaschula (15:42)
It's not for everyone.

Yes.

Jason Elkins (15:55)
used to be a real threat. So I'm curious if there were other kids in the boarding school that were like, and you're crazy. Why do you want to be here? I don't want to be here. My mom, my parents don't care. They don't love me. They shipped me off to boarding school. Or was your experience that like everybody there was happy? I mean, what was that

Ant Kaschula (16:12)
Yes, boarding school is certainly not for everyone, but again, I think you can go to the most amazing school or school that has an amazing reputation or a school that isn't. And you can just get lucky or unlucky with all the other kids who just happened to be in that year. And I was very lucky that I had a great group of friends in my year. They all come from farming backgrounds and a lot of them also really enjoyed the bush and all that lot.

So I made some very, very firm friends who even to this day, my closest friends are from that time. It's almost like it was a crucible that we all put into and we all went through some tough times. I was actually a year over age because I started school in South Africa where they start a year older. When I actually got to Peterhouse, an all boys boarding school, all of my sports activities had to be with the boys in the year above me who would kind of look down on this younger chap.

Jason Elkins (17:06)
yeah.

Ant Kaschula (17:08)
And I was actually at the point where if I didn't know a boy in the year above me's name, you'd call him sir. It was a very different world. So you just had to toe the line and just look after yourself and just get your head down, ears back. But I really enjoyed it. And we just had so much, so many extracurricular activities to keep us busy that I just absolutely thrived and just loved

Jason Elkins (17:33)
It's none of my business and I don't know why I want to ask this. It's a little off topic, but all boys boarding school. It sounds like you had a lot of activities to keep yourselves entertained. Did you even miss the opportunity to engage with girls or what?

Ant Kaschula (17:49)
So girls didn't come onto the radar for me at least until I was about 16. I was quite a late developer should we say. And suppose mountain bikes and catching snakes and all those other things. then yeah, suddenly when girls came on the scene, it wasn't actually an all -boys. So there's a boys campus and a girls campus. And basically in your final two years of school, the girls would actually come across to the boys side and would have academic lessons together.

Jason Elkins (17:54)
I'm guessing.

Ant Kaschula (18:17)
So they weren't that current. It was actually, no, that would be 17 and 18. So your last two years of school. I was actually 19 because I was a year older. But anyhow, one could visit the girls school if you wanted to and all that lot. But yeah, the first couple of years, should we say, my tensions were very firmly somewhere else.

Jason Elkins (18:17)
which was about the age you were 16. And so you were about 16 when that happened.

Okay.

Yeah, very cool. And I also want to ask, OK, so your daughter's 13. So your daughter comes to you here in the next few weeks and says, Dad, Mom, Dad, I want to go to boarding school. She's all excited about the same way you were. How do you respond to that?

Ant Kaschula (18:57)
So how crazy is this? So my wife Rowana is from Kenya. She went to boarding school in the year that you turned six. So the age of five and the year that you turned six, she went to boarding school and she was away from her mom for three weeks at a time. All of us, so we've got three children. Our eldest Tassie is 13, our middle son Hugo is 11, and then we've got a four year old Dorian. But Tassie and Hugo both started boarding

had a little school about an hour and a half drive from town where we lived until very recently and they were five and a half when they started boarding school and I was like wow it's only weekly boarding but yeah

Jason Elkins (19:37)
OK, so you've already so my question my question is way behind. I'm way behind the game here. You've already been through all

Ant Kaschula (19:45)
Yeah, so they've both thrived. Tessia was made for boarding school. She took like a duck to water and she's really thrived and done incredibly well there. And she's now at Peterhouse. She's now at the girls school side. She's just started her first term there. She's been there for about six months now.

Jason Elkins (20:06)
And is she into snakes and stuff?

Ant Kaschula (20:10)
Sadly there is no longer a snake club, but now that we've actually moved home to, we've just built ourselves a new house that's probably about a 15 minute drive away from school. Previously it was an hour and a half. We've just moved in here about two weeks ago. I'm hoping to, in my spare time, be able to get a lot more involved in some of the different clubs and societies and things like that. Because a lot of that's all just driven by the interest and the enthusiasm of the parents and teachers who are around.

yeah she was saying dad can we get a snake club going and I said well fair enough girls are interested in and we can get something going yeah maybe let's talk to the teachers and and see where it goes

Jason Elkins (20:49)
That's a, it's very cool. It's such a, I think the experience in Africa and other places around the world is a little different maybe than what I was exposed to growing up. Because like I said, boarding school is a threat. Like it was not common for kids, you know, my age or just when I was growing up, I still don't think it is in the U .S. Boarding school is like, there's a few. There might be a couple in the state.

And maybe the families with a lot of money would send their kids to boarding school or something for some reason, but vast majority of Americans just can't get their head around it. So I appreciate you sharing that. Have you had that conversation with clients as well from the States?

Ant Kaschula (21:22)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

very often exactly they're like what like you said you you sent your kid at five and a half to go to like five like four nights a week your child's away like are you are you crazy it's like well actually and and the thing is for me that really kind of when i look at my wife who who went through that system so i only started when i was 13 i was a little bit older and all that stuff she went she was much younger and to this day some of her very closest friends

are all from that time, from when they were at boarding school and they all started at six years old together. And these are people she won't see them for a couple of years or months on end and they just pick up where they left off. And she's got friends from high school and then she's got people from university but her really closest buddies are all from that time. And when I look at that, I'm like, wow, something happened then that created a really strong bond between you guys. And not just a superficial bond, but a very, very strong bond. And I look

daughter Tassie and Hugo and what they've gone through. Yeah I'm a very strong convert. Yes they might grow up a little bit quicker and all that but we've been lucky that it's worked for both of them. Yeah as I said it's not everyone's cup of tea.

Jason Elkins (22:41)
Yeah, yeah. Now that's, that's, that's an interesting, interesting difference. So correct me. You, so you're all of this conversation we're having is about your time. You're in Zimbabwe

Ant Kaschula (22:52)
Yes, I'm in Zimbabwe now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (22:53)
Because I heard you say come back. Okay, all right. And is there any other country in Africa you'd rather

Ant Kaschula (23:00)
Actually no, and again, I spent, yeah, so I've been at university, I did my undergraduate degree in Cape Town, South Africa, and we lived there for a few years when I was much younger. I lived and worked in Kenya for five years. I've been fortunate to have traveled to, I think it's about 22 different countries in Africa, and I guide safaris into 18 of those. And when I go to all of those places, and I look at the ups and the downs and the pros and the cons, and I come back to Zimbabwe and I just see what we've got here.

There's no doubt in my mind that I would want to be anywhere else. We have an incredibly beautiful country. We have so many good things going for this place. I think particularly at this time in my life with our children, schooling for them is absolutely critical. And the quality of the schools that we have, Jason, here is unbelievable. I'll tell you, if you had to come out to Zim and go and visit some of these schools.

you would just be blown away and just see how happy and how thriving these kids are. I look at junior school, my son's doing horse riding, Tassie was playing golf, all this crazy stuff and it's like here's a 10 year old saying well dad can I sign up for golf this term? It's like oh that's cool Tass, go for it and there's my 10 year old son saying yeah I'm going horse riding and then they've got mountain biking clubs and they've got fishing clubs and they've got all this kind of stuff going on and that's just in addition to your normal

tennis, hockey, football, netball, swimming, all the kind of bowling kind of stuff. They've got all this other really exciting stuff. So that's why we're here.

Jason Elkins (24:34)
I think that the folk, I think that folks listening to this that aren't familiar with Zimbabwe, I have not been to Zimbabwe, I've been to Zambia, I've been to a few countries in Africa, not Zimbabwe. So I probably have some preconceived, I know I, and cause I know I have some preconceived ideas that are completely just based on the conversation so far I realized, wow, that's not what I would have expected, you know, about a conversation about Zimbabwe. And I suspect there's a lot of folks overseas that have never been as well

Ant Kaschula (24:45)
where you need to go.

Jason Elkins (25:02)
probably have preconceived ideas about Zimbabwe. And we have, it's interesting. We remember negative things from the past, negative news, negative, just things that have happened. And it's almost like we think they were yesterday. I spent a lot of time, I'm in Columbia right now. It's kind of the same thing. When I was growing up, Columbia was, there was a lot of really difficult things happening in the country. And when I decided to come here a couple of years ago,

my family is like, you can't go there. That's dangerous, that. You know, it was all based on ideas that they'd, know, news stories that they'd seen in the past because the news is really good at saying what's bad. But then when things change and improve, they don't tend to come back and do the, you know, where are they now type of thing and show the improvements and the changes and stuff. So I'd love for you to touch on

Ant Kaschula (25:47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jason, again, when it comes to that, I just look at also from a guiding point of view, what I do, the experience I'm able to offer my guests and the wild wildernesses that we have and the big spaces and the freedom that I have as a guide to take people on foot into these places. Other guides also in Africa only dream about the stuff that we can do here. And so from that point of view as well,

the experience that we can offer, the very close to nature experience that we can offer here. And I'm talking specifically about walking. That's what makes me tick. I'm a professional walking guide. There's nothing I get more excited about than getting out on foot, finding a fresh set of lion tracks early in the morning and saying to my guests, right guys, grab your backpack, let's throw a couple of apples in, let's put a couple of bottles of water in. We're gonna track these things until we find

It might take us an hour, it might take us four hours, who knows, but this is where we are for. Or getting out and seeing a huge big elephant bull kind of walking up to a big tree and then finding a safe way to get in and go and just sit down next to him in a little gully or something like that. But time on foot in these big wild areas with elephant, buffalo, rhino, lion, leopard, that's what makes me tick. And we have got a guiding

qualification process in in Zimbabwe I won't talk too much about it because it'll take up the full 45 minutes but we've got one of the most rigorous guiding qualification processes anywhere in Africa possibly the world and it really allows or should I say it weeds a lot of people out to look at the very glamorous side of guiding driving a four -wheel -drive vehicle around sipping gin and tonics watching the sunset

rubbing shoulders with some of the most wonderful interesting people in the world. There's a lot more that comes to that and the responsibility of walking out in the bush with people's lives in your hands. You're the one making the call. It's a huge responsibility and your knowledge and understanding of wildlife and everything is really on a whole different level to anywhere else because when you're driving around pointing out animals from a car and getting your book out

explaining the name of the bird and the tree and this and that from a vehicle, you're a spectator to the whole thing. Once you're out on foot and you've got people's lives in your hands and you're out in these wilderness areas, there's a big responsibility, but that for me is what gets me excited. That's what I love to do and Zimbabwe allows that in spades and an experience that...

Jason Elkins (28:30)
How

I wanted to ask, you said, what we can do here. We can get out and walk around. We can, can, can. The things you can do there that you can't maybe do other places, presumptively. Is that just because the resource allows it so well, or is that because of regulations and rules? I mean, why can you do all these walking safaris in Zimbabwe, but maybe you can't do the same type of thing in other countries?

Ant Kaschula (28:55)
Yes, yeah, yeah. So in other countries, South Africa, can go on walking safaris. Zambia is a country that's very well kind of, should we say, marketed as a walking safari destination. It's not that you can't walk in those countries, but typically the kinds of walks that we're able to do is you're able to get in very close and personal with these animals. You've got a level of training that is far superior to anywhere else. And in a lot of those places, Kenya, Tanzania, for example,

You're out and you've got a game scout who's got a 303 rifle or an automatic AK -47 or something like that. None of those people in many cases have really been trained per se to really walk you up and get close to a herd of elephants or track a pride of lions. You're going to go out for a walk and you're going to see the animals

over there. You're look at them in your binoculars and you're going to do everything you can to avoid them and keep your distance from them. Whereas we're like, no, we want to get you in as close as we can, as safely as possible though. And so it's just a much more intimate personal experience where the guide is the person typically who's carrying the weapon from that point of view. So we have this whole guide training process, but you need to have a certain weapon of a minimum caliber and all this kind of

But basically as the guide, you're the one who's actually calling the shots when it comes to the speed of the walk, the duration, how close you're gonna get, all that kind of stuff. You want a guide who's deferring to someone else who's just a national park, a government trained ranger, who's, he's walking in front and you, it's difficult to kind of explain it, but when you're the one making that call,

you're not relying on someone else and what their experience is. It's just a very different experience and difficult for me to really try and explain it because at the end of the day, someone's, well, a walking safari is a walking safari. Yes, walking out in the bush is the same from one country to another, but certainly the kinds of things that you can do and the closeness of the experience that you can have. In many places, you get out your car and you see a fresh set of line tracks and

GameSpot's like, right, we're gonna go in the opposite direction because there's lions here, it's too dangerous. We're like, no, no, there's fresh lion tracks, we need to get onto these things as quickly as we can.

Jason Elkins (31:26)
some, you know, I get it. I get what you're saying, but I'm also have the privilege of being able to sit here and see the look on your face as your despite is you're describing this. I hope that our listeners are able to kind of sense what you're saying as well. I think it's pretty cool. And I suspect there's also people out there that are listening to this like, man, I'm aunt just kind of scared me this idea of no, there's lions here. We're going this way. So how do you and some people are just not up for that. I get that.

Ant Kaschula (31:27)
So.

Absolutely.

Jason Elkins (31:57)
So I'm not suggesting you try and talk somebody into doing it that doesn't want to do it. But I'm sure you get people that are apprehensive that are just kind of like, are you sure? how do you like, how does that work dealing with the clients?

Ant Kaschula (32:09)
I suppose the main thing is that I've been in this idol for 25 years now. Most of our guests are word of mouth referrals. You're not booking your trip through a travel agent and a third party. When you're the trip, it's a referral that an email or a WhatsApp message comes through to me. The first thing I do is get on the phone and I say, this is who I am. This is what I do. These are the places I go to. This is the experience I like to give my guests.

People often say, well I don't feel comfortable being out of the vehicle and doing certain things. I say, well if you don't feel comfortable, I'm not here trying to show off or be a cowboy or get you as close to a lion or an elephant or a buffalo, whatever the case is. It's your holiday at the end of the day, but I'm just letting you know that I can give you level of experience that you're not going to find easily in many other places. Also for me, it's quite a difficult one to explain,

old Africa experience. Giving people that feeling and certainly for me is being in a canvas tent for me is just so important and it's been so interesting over the years just seeing how the safari industry has evolved where you've now got these uber luxury very very expensive camps and the camps are beautiful they've got cappuccino machines whizzing around every corner and infinity swimming pools and all that kind of stuff but the essence of the safari I think is is largely being

and I think you can have a five -star experience from a two -star infrastructure. You just get a couple of things right. A really good quality wine, a good coffee, a wholesome freshly prepared meal, a comfortable bed, a hot shower, a loo that's perfectly clean and functional. And for me, and more and more so, is the luxury of being in a vast area and feelings if you're the only people there.

is exclusivity and privacy and freedom. We can get out and we can walk, we can game drive, we can do a night drive, we can get a fishing rod out and throw a fly out and catch a tiger fish. We can do all those kinds of things but that feeling of anything is possible and being able to not like, well we can't do this and we can't do that and we can't do that. No, no, we can and want to be able to do all those things as if we were almost doing this a century ago when you didn't

all these rules and regulations and things that have had to come in as the industry has just become such a big, industry.

Jason Elkins (34:45)
Right. That reminds me of, I'm not sure what it reminds me of. There's quite a few things rolling around in my head. You kind of, I think it was the talk of luxury. I spoke with someone here recently that was talking about luxury does not necessarily mean, you know, linen, super fancy, everything. It's value. It's really about the value.

that it provides and yeah, maybe it's expensive and maybe you're sleeping in a canvas tent and you're paying twice as what you would pay for a hotel in town, but it can still be luxury because it's the value that it brings, right?

Ant Kaschula (35:19)
You

Yeah, absolutely. it's your overall experience at the end of the day. And so I'm finding myself more and more going to, I won't say the word is basic, but I'm saying simpler camps that are more remote. So the cost of getting in and out of those places is expensive. You haven't just got seat and plane rates. You haven't got a shuttle bus going back and forth. If you want to get into these places, the only way you're to get to these wilderness areas is a private charter.

You're in a small camp, it's very remote, it only operates for a short period of time as far as the season goes. There's a premium that you have to pay for that. And so at the end of the day, it's the experience, as you say. It's not about the wifi speed and the thread count and how many different kinds of champagne they've got and the bronze sculptures around the lodge and all that lot. It's

Jason Elkins (36:11)
Well, you can imagine if you're a tour operator and you decide, OK, I want to start a safari camp and I want it to have all the best linens and the infinity pool and this and that and this and that. When they decide where to place that, what criteria are they going to use to decide where to place that? They're going to place it somewhere that's logistically feasible, that has good roads into it.

They're not thinking, well, what's the most remote place where like the clients will be closest to the animals and have the most authentic experience, maybe interaction with local tribespeople, because that's just cost prohibitive. So you can imagine. I've been fortunate to this quite a few places. And one of my fondest memories was the most remote in Namibia, where I don't think there'd ever been a camp in this particular spot. They set up the camp for us. And it was definitely.

the canvas tents, the cots, the sleeping bag, good coffee in the morning. And a guy kind of like the gentleman we were speaking about earlier, the long flowing red hair, but he was missing an arm. So he was like the perfect, you know, and I remember when we met him at the

Ant Kaschula (37:24)
Chris... Chris Bacchus, I think is his

Jason Elkins (37:27)
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, you know the guy.

Ant Kaschula (37:29)
Yes. was technically, he's an absolute legend. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (37:34)
Yeah, yeah. And when we came in on the flight in to this little airstrip, it was, don't even know if it's an airstrip. I think it was just a flat spot in the sand. And we landed and this guy pulls up in the vehicle and he gets out. And I looked at him and I looked at the other folks that were on the strip. We were all tour operators. It was a fam trip. And I said, I'll bet you anything he tells us, it's a crocodile. I this got to be a crocodile because anything less than crocodile is going to be really disappointing. So we met him.

Ant Kaschula (37:57)
Yes.

Jason Elkins (38:02)
And nobody said anything. then at dinner the first night, I was like, OK, tell me about the crocodile. And, you know, he told the story and I recall it had something to do with his dog or a crocodile. I don't remember all the details, but my gosh, his energy was just like the absolute just he brought that character that it sounded like a lot like the guy you were talking

Ant Kaschula (38:11)
Yeah.

That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And so, so much so and that's I just believe it's the individuals. You can go and stay in a super fancy Ritz Carlton Four Seasons, whatever the case is. at the end of the day, a lot of those places, because they're such big chains and they, and don't get me wrong, they're fantastic experiences for certain people. But at the same time, when you're the owner of your business and your next booking is going to come from,

referral from those guests having had a good time or whatever or you just that's what you do and get excited about it's very different to a big business that's just got a whole bunch of employees and has to have these standard operating protocols your hair has to be cut this high and your fingernails have to be cut that short and you have to conform to all these things you lose those charismatic interesting people a lot of the time and I think those

Jason Elkins (39:17)
Cause they wouldn't even, they probably wouldn't even hire. They probably wouldn't even hire Chris. You know, they'd look at him like, no, he doesn't fit, doesn't fit the mold. And he was, you know, he was the best person to hang out in the bush with. And we had, I mean, in my mind still to this day, I feel like we had an adventure that nobody else has ever had. They maybe do the same adventure every week. I don't know, but we felt like we were the first ones there, the last ones there. And there's a lot of value to

Ant Kaschula (39:21)
Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Jason, as you say, you feel as if that was the most incredible experience that no one else has ever experienced. That feeling is there we go. That is exactly it. And so that again, for us has been this whole thing as well as we provide a service. Why we call ourselves Private Guided Safaris is exactly that. We meet our guests. So first of all, we're involved in the whole planning of that itinerary, which is meticulous. There's a lot of phone calls and back and forth and all that lot.

And then basically, I'm gonna meet those people literally from when they set foot in Africa and we'll be with them to all the different lodges and camps that we go to. I will be accompanying them from one place to another. So you've got that continuity of information. You've got someone always looking out for the group. I'm always thinking two or three steps ahead of what's gonna be happening, making sure we're also getting the absolute maximum experience out of a certain place by saying to the manager, hey, please come have a bush dinner under this tree.

the second night and on our first morning can we have a breakfast out in the bush at this place and going and speaking to the local fishing guide in the camp who's the top fishing guy and say right tomorrow afternoon we're on the boat fishing and we're going to that honey home of yours that you don't normally take people to because I know it that kind of stuff and and and and so it's just it's just rounding that whole experience and just having that guaranteed level of service delivery and humor and camaraderie and and

all of

Jason Elkins (41:11)
Let me ask you this because there's a lot of different business models around tourism, inbound operators, outbound operators, DMCs. And what I hear you saying is you've mostly repeats referrals. You're dealing with them from the beginning when they first inquire with you to set up something as opposed to the model where maybe your clients

outbound tour operators from the US and they're just sending you clients and they send you an electronic manifest and say, here's the flight they're coming in on. Here's what time you need to pick them up. And you just kind of get whatever notes they shared. Do you feel like it's easier? I mean, there's obviously a lot more work when you're doing direct with the direct with your clients ahead of time. But in the long run, do you feel like it's easier, more rewarding for you to work directly with them? Because then when they show up, they already have the trust.

You've already got some sort of connection. They show up just totally different, don't they?

Ant Kaschula (42:05)
Yes, yeah absolutely. So we are basically a DMC as well for other private guides into the southern African region and stuff like that as well. But as far as things go is that I also will guide trips for other travel agencies from time to time. And so I do a mix of both but for most of our direct bookings I just think it's really important

We're able to have all those conversations in some of the camps that we go to. They're very remote. I'm just making sure that nothing's being missed. This is the experience and dietary stuff. All those small details that can make a really big difference to the overall trip. And a lot of that often gets missed when the guest goes to their travel agent in the US. The travel agent in the US gets hold of a DMC somewhere in Africa and that person that says, hey aunt,

We've heard about you through so and so, so and so. Can you please guide these guests of ours? Is your calendar free over these dates? And if I look at my calendar and I'm free, like, yeah, absolutely. That's my daily guiding fee. Cool. But it is quite difficult. There is that kind of disconnect that I haven't been in touch with those guests to just make sure that just nothing's been left to chance. And that's where we really do like to just have that direct communication, particularly

Jason Elkins (43:28)
Okay, and I know you're gonna continue here in just a second. And I also recognize that your partners overseas, the outbound tour operators or the travel agents that do send clients to you are also important for your business. And I know if they're listening to this right now, you don't want them to say, well, geez, Ann, it sounds like you don't wanna work with us and you just would rather just do direct booking. And I know that's not the case. That's why I wanted to, because I

Ant Kaschula (43:50)
Dun Dun!

Jason Elkins (43:56)
I think some tour operators, some other tour operators and agents hopefully are listening to this episode right now. So what is the piece of advice that you might give to a travel agent that is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin and has a client come in, wants to go to Africa, they've heard of you, they're going to reach out to you. What's the best advice that you can give them to help them set up their clients and themselves to have a great review at the end of the day?

Ant Kaschula (44:24)
Yeah, so what I think would be important is before the trip, of when they get hold of me and say, and we'd like you to look after this family and whatever the case is, is that I would like to be able to, they must have the trust in me that I can contact their guests and say, hey guys, So and has been in touch with me. They would like me to guide you. I'm absolutely delighted. I'm so looking forward to our trip together. It's a really great itinerary. These are the place we're going to. And hey, I just want to introduce myself.

What makes you tick? Where do you normally go on holiday with your family? What wines do you normally drink? Are you a single malt scotch drinker or do you prefer a bourbon? Do we need to a couple of cigars along on the trip? What else and what can I do to make this trip for you not just a great holiday but an incredible experience of a lifetime? And if I've got that communication directly with that person it just means when they get out of the plane and I shake their hand I'm like, hey, it's awesome to see

It's not a stranger that I'm kind of looking at like a passport name and this and that. If I've been given their details to really kind of get to know them before they come, that really does that.

Jason Elkins (45:34)
Is that is that difficult with a lot of outbound tour operators and travel agents? I've worked in the business long enough to know sometimes like, Nope, I don't want you to have any direct contact with the client, which is kind of ironic because like I don't want you to talk to the client because as soon as they get off the plane, they're going to spend a week. So it's like if if you're going to poach them somehow or if you're going to put ideas in their head, they should book directly or whatever, you know, whatever. What do you think the fear is that these travel agents or tour operators might have

Ant Kaschula (45:46)
Yeah,

for two weeks.

Jason Elkins (46:04)
that causes them to be resistant to let you communicate directly with the clients.

Ant Kaschula (46:09)
Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, I don't think there's necessarily a resistance per se, but I just look at so many of the trips that I've done just trying to get that those little details out of them. It's just you you send a form saying please I need these following things and you chase up and you chase up and you chase up and I suppose it's more actual buyback to say actually I would like to speak to these people directly. I just think I'm going to be spending time with them. I'd like to just introduce myself and so I don't think there's a reluctance per se. It's possibly

more something just now that we're having this conversation, you've actually asked me that question. That that would just be something I think would really help a lot. And there's also, I suppose, the whole trust side of things is that, yeah, if you're gonna go and take someone's guess, well, you're gonna, word gets around very, very quickly. Very, very quickly. And so, yeah, I look at the things I might have done.

20 years ago when I was young and kind of green behind the ears and didn't really know how the industry worked, very different to how one kind of conducts your business now with a full understanding of all the people and the ownership and the relationships and all that side of things. So yeah.

Jason Elkins (47:24)
It's interesting because there are, mean, who knows? Because there's so many different reasons somebody might, I mean, a travel agent might think, you're too busy to talk to them. I'll take care of it. I'll do all this. I'll handle it because I know you're busy and I don't want to bother you. And you're giving us commissions. So I don't think you should have to do this. But that's our job to gather all this initial information. So they may be making assumptions about what you want to do. And I think you're right. I think if you just say, look, this

Ant Kaschula (47:50)
Mm -hmm. Mm

Jason Elkins (47:54)
This is if you love to work with your clients, and this is my process. And here's a link to my Zoom room or whatever. And we're going to do a quick video call. And I'll send you a copy of the recording. We'll record the call. We'll send it to you in case your planners want to have some idea of what was said and what was promised, if they want. And as a client, or maybe the agent thinks that the client's too busy.

Ant Kaschula (48:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (48:24)
Maybe they've got this story in their head that the client hired them so that they wouldn't have to talk to somebody in Africa. But that's just a story in their head.

Ant Kaschula (48:30)
Yes, yes, yeah, that they just... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just think that the level of service that we give is just, it really is, it is, yeah, I don't know how to explain it, but small little things that can make such a big difference. And again, one of the most enjoyable parts of what I do, and I think I'm lucky to have one of the most privileged occupations in the world. You think, wow, you're taking people out on safari who

In many cases have saved up for years and years. It's their once in a lifetime holiday to Africa. And that's the funny thing people are like, we've wanted to come in our whole lives and this is a once in a lifetime thing. Expecting they're never going to come back. And eight times out of ten, maybe seven or eight times out of ten before that safari is even finished, they're like, wow. And where are we going to next year? This holiday has just been so incredible. We had no idea it was going to be so enjoyable. Where else can we go? And that's, yeah.

But the huge, you

Jason Elkins (49:31)
Yeah, well.

Very, very cool. It's an Africa such a diverse, diverse place. mean, this but but we don't like if you live in the US, you can look at a map and see that Africa is big. But really, if you're not looking at a map, Africa feels very small just because it's because you don't know much about it. If you take everything you know about Africa and compile it in your head, it just takes up a very small space. You think elephants?

cheetahs, lions, civil unrest. I mean, realistically, right? You mix all that stuff in there, malaria and snakes or whatever, and those whatever things, some good and some negative, and you condense it all into your story of Africa, it's a very, very small little package. So you can probably say, well, I want to go there once in my life. And somehow you kind of think

Ant Kaschula (50:10)
Yes. Yeah. Malaria.

Jason Elkins (50:35)
is feasible because what your view of Africa is so small that it's like that makes sense. But then once you go there and you're like, holy cow, we've just barely touched barely scratched the surface or the surface, especially if they're spending time with you, that guides an 18 different countries by the end of two weeks, they're probably going home with all kinds of ideas of places and things they want to see. So that makes sense. I can see that happening.

Ant Kaschula (51:00)
Yeah, no, no, absolutely. No, completely. You say Namibia, you look at just how very different every country and experience is. And just some of these amazing places also opening up as well. You've got organizations like African Parks who are really moving the needle and taking over the management of parks that were literally defunct, broken. On paper, they were parks, but they were nothing else. And they're turning these places around. How crazy is this? Within the last couple of weeks, I don't know if you know this at all,

But in South Sudan, you've got Burma and Badengilo National Parks. You've never even heard of these two places. Within the last couple of weeks, African parks have just put out a press statement to say the largest migration of large mammals on the face of this planet is actually in these two, in between these two national parks and going into Gambela National Park in Ethiopia. You're looking at six million large mammals.

more than double the size of the great migration the Serengeti in 2024 the middle of 2024 is the world being told actually guys the biggest mammal migration of and these are little things these are tiang these are uh mangalia antelope uh what's the other one uh white -eared cob there's about five million white -eared cob this is an animal that's bigger than a white -tailed deer

and the world didn't even know about this.

Jason Elkins (52:31)
And it's not that this migration just appeared overnight. It's been there for a while. So we're talking about because the South Sudan gets a lot of press. I've heard a lot about the South Sudan, not about migrations in the South Sudan. you want to, I mean, maybe migration, but not like animal migration like that.

Ant Kaschula (52:35)
Suddenly.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So just saying, there's these places. You've got Zakuma National Park in Chad. It is the single most incredible wildlife spectacle that you could ever experience. And in 25 years of guiding, I regularly go there every time I come back from it. I'm like, how can this place exist? How can there be such an incredible abundance and diversity of wildlife and bird

Jason Elkins (52:56)
Yeah.

Ant Kaschula (53:19)
that people who have been on safari 20 times to southern Africa and east Africa, nothing can prepare them for what they'll see when they go there. come away from there just, their whole mind shift has just been blown out of the water. And so,

Jason Elkins (53:33)
which a mind shift is incredible. And this all reminds me of something I just saw on your website. I still have it saved here on the tab on my computer. It says, a good guide will take you where you want to go. A great guide will take you where you need to go. And that's what I just heard in your voice was like, OK, you might think maybe you want to go to same guy. I get that. Some people want to do

But there's these other places you're talking about that I suspect are just going to be a lot more profound and potentially life -changing, not just because of the animals. The animals, obviously, are very, important. But there's a lot more than just animals in Africa,

Ant Kaschula (54:12)
So much so and the good new stories that are coming out of some of these places is just phenomenal. Just some incredible stuff and you just look at Zakuuma as an example and there are a whole range of them but that's exactly it and I just find 25 years on, yes it's great going to the Serengeti and the Mara those places but for me it's not so much just about the animals it's about these incredible landscapes that are being turned around the people in them

and ultimately luxury in terms of exclusivity, feeling as if you're the only people in that park or in that area or whatever the case is.

Jason Elkins (54:55)
You know, when I was guiding, I was a fly fishing guide. I've led a lot of trips. I'm a hot air balloon pilot, so I had a hot air balloon ride business for a while. And I just always felt, maybe selfishly, but I just always felt if I was having fun, if I was doing what I thought was cool, then the clients would have fun as well, within reason.

I mean, it's, know, if somebody doesn't, if somebody doesn't want to fly in a balloon, they're not going to have fun in a balloon just because I'm having fun in a balloon. But it was just always like, if I was doing what I thought was really going to be interesting for me, you know, trying to connect, you know, I'm also pretty good at connecting with people, but if I could listen to what they want to do and then figure out how to do that in a way that would be fun for me, it would just be so much more fun. And I'm a firm believer in that. And so that's like when people book a guide.

Just really, anybody listen to this, I would just say be really careful about going to the guides and this is what we want day one, day two, day three, day four. And especially if it's a place you've never been because you saw pictures on Instagram. I want to go to Pisa. I want to go to Naples. I want to go to wherever, wherever these places are. And really just try and start the conversation with an open mind, which really

Ant Kaschula (56:06)
Mm. Mm.

Jason Elkins (56:17)
Part of that challenge is because we have so many ways to research things now. So when somebody, mean, back in the day, if you wanted to go to Italy, I don't know why I'm using Italy as an example, but if you wanted to go to Italy, you might find a friend who's been, or you might find a trusted travel agent, travel advisor of some sort, or maybe you just saw somebody on TV, I think it was Perillo Tours or whatever I used to see commercials for.

And you just decide, okay, that's what I'm going to do. I want to go to Italy and you'd go to wherever they would suggest you go. But now with Instagram and all these different resources, you, can over research it way too much. And I'm sure you have clients all the time. They come to you and it's the same thing with doctors. Doctors deal with the same thing. Lawyers deal with the same thing. Real estate agents. We all have the same issues. somebody. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's an expert and it's really. Yeah. And if you tell them.

Ant Kaschula (56:53)
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Everyone's an expert.

they've learned on Instagram or Google.

Jason Elkins (57:11)
No, you don't want to go there. Then there's that sense of, yes, I do. all of a sudden, I don't trust you because you must not want to take me there because you can't make as much money on that particular outing or because of whatever reasons. So what do you say to people that are just now starting to think about going to Africa? Should they do a bunch of research first? How should they get this started?

Ant Kaschula (57:25)
Yes.

I think it's always good to do that. But again, what I always kind of go back to when I set up some of my first calls when we have a referral, someone wants to come and do a trip with us, is I'll sit down with them and I'll kind of figure out, say, right, where do you normally go on holiday and how long and what experience are you after? And have you got any ideas of where and when you want to go? And just kind of hear them out and all that lot.

and then I'll be able to go and say, well, if you want to travel that time of year it makes sense that we either look at this region or that region or the other. But I'll basically then say to myself, I've been in this game for 25 years and I pretty much am accompanying every group of guests that I go with. I'm not gonna wanna take them to somewhere where I am not 100 % sure that they're gonna have a great time there. But at the same time, I'm not

I'm not hitching my horse to any particular wagon or my wagon to any particular horse, however it goes. But we find we want to put together a trip for a specific group and all of our trips are tailored and we're going to particular Lodger camp because you get a higher commission or this or that. And another thing I think which sets us apart from a lot of other people as well is in terms of our costings, we actually put together a costing breakdown

Jason Elkins (58:37)
Mm -hmm.

Ant Kaschula (59:00)
which is totally open. It's an exile spreadsheet pretty much that shows every single element of the trip from Ant gets in a taxi to go to Rairi International Airport return and he's got two of those and those are 40 bucks each. Ant's flight from here to Nairobi is X. Ant gets to the hotel and he's in a guide room. It's why guests arrive and have a meet and greet. Every single line item is detailed right away and they can go to all of those lodges and camps that we sell and say you can you are welcome to get online.

and go and check the prices of those places. We're not gonna charge you a cent more than what the recommended retail price is. And if there's a special deal or something, whatever, we're gonna pass it on to you. And so that I think also helps us. We're not putting together a package trip and saying, right, the package is costing you this. And because you've got a blow -by -blow account and people can see and they can say, all the other camps in itinerary are all $900 a night, but this camp is like 2000. Why is that so much?

and and and and is it necessary then you can sit down Sarah this is how that turn you're actually the reason why we're going there is because of x y and z if you don't like that here are the other options there's options a b c and d and they can then look and we'll give them the price of all those so that really i think helps a lot which

Jason Elkins (1:00:18)
All right. And that's different. That's different. That's not something that you see a lot in this business. And I respect that. And partially why you don't see it a lot is not that other operators are trying to pull the wool over your eyes necessarily, but it actually creates more back and forth potentially because there is that conversation. You're doing it a much higher level of back and forth because if someone sees one line item,

Ant Kaschula (1:00:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. No, no. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (1:00:46)
Well, why are we doing this? Why did you charge me? And it could be $20. What's this $20? And now you've got the back and forth of explaining it, where even if you just took the same prices and just said, here's the total, it'd be easier for you. It doesn't actually change anything. It's still the same price. So I respect that you do that. That's different.

Ant Kaschula (1:00:51)
Perfect.

Yeah, yeah, it's an interesting thing and and and and I suppose it's more just also when people because a safari is such an expensive trip comparatively It really isn't a cheap holiday when you look at your air charters And also that it also is good to know in some cases You might be staying in quite high -end places other places staying in a simple camp And as we talked about earlier on just the the cost of operating in such remote areas is so high. So you're saying

Whilst the other lovely lodge that we're to be finishing the trip off is a similar kind of price, the price is because we're the only people here and we're not going to see another living soul in the four days that we're here and that kind of a thing.

Jason Elkins (1:01:45)
It gives you an opportunity to explain things and that even probably even more reinforces once they get there and they've already got that trust and you're like, hey, there's lions here, let's go. Yeah, okay.

Ant Kaschula (1:01:59)
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, also, think when people first say, how much is a safari going to cost? And there's a multi -generational family. There's kind 12 people, whatever the case is. you're like, okay, it's suddenly people are going be like, whoa, okay, we didn't realize. And then you can then say, okay, well, this is how we can tailor it. This is the reasons why, et cetera, et cetera.

Jason Elkins (1:02:24)
Yeah, that's cool. It's more work. But I can see why you've got so many repeats and referrals. That's pretty good. And we spoke about a lot of things, and there's a lot of things we didn't even touch on. It's kind of like your life and your story in this business is kind of like Africa, big and full and diverse and many different things. And I want to make sure to give you the opportunity. Is there anything I should have asked, anything that I forgot to ask, or just anything in particular that you want to make sure our listeners know about you?

Africa, life in general, anything at all you want to share before we wrap up.

Ant Kaschula (1:02:55)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can, yeah, just a couple of things. suppose, again, just our business as far as having a private guide, there is obviously an expense that comes with that additional service, but I can tell you having an escorting private guide, travel with the group, particularly if you're doing several different properties. If you're doing a 12 or 14 night itinerary where you're staying at three or four different properties,

The value that any private guide brings to the table is huge. At the same time, would say, don't always go for the most luxury properties per se. You can have a five -star experience from a two -star camp, as I kind of see it. I think going back to the whole guide side of things, that's the person who's creating the magic for

you're with them on all the activities. You don't just get back to the lodge and you get handed over to the management and then you go and sit down and make small talk with the waiter and all that. But your guide is there, he's keeping everything flowing and all that. And so I just believe that it's a really important service, that it is really, I won't say undervalued or rated,

Certainly something that just makes a great trip and an incredible trip. And at the same time also look for those wilder places. They still exist out there. There's some incredible places that are simple camps. But certainly when you find the lions yourselves and you're the only vehicle watching those lions or you're on your own two feet watching those lions having tracked them and you don't see another

That whole day, it's a very different experience to going to somewhere else where you're staying in a super fancy lodge, but five minutes out of the camp, you've been radioed in to come and see a particular sighting and there's 20 other vehicles surrounding it. You very quickly realize where would you rather spend your money? But it's difficult as a guide or a tool operator.

Jason Elkins (1:05:15)
Mm -hmm.

Ant Kaschula (1:05:19)
to try and explain that until people have actually seen it and experienced it. And again, a lot of people will come on their first trip and then afterwards they will then say, actually, we would like to have a guide because there's an inside knowledge and that level of service that is just so different.

Jason Elkins (1:05:39)
happy you brought this up because I realize as I'm listening to you, kind of know, I know what you're talking about because of my experiences, but I also recognize that, like you said, if you've never been to Africa, you've never been on safari, it's kind of hard to understand the difference. It's like when I had my balloon ride business, I had a smaller balloon. So I typically would take a couple, would charter flights. I would do private charter flights. But most people that book a balloon ride have never been on a balloon ride.

So if you go online and search for balloon rides, you're going to see the hundred dollar per person balloon ride in a basket with 20, 24 other people. And then you're going to see Jason's balloon ride over here. And it's a thousand dollars for three or four people. And it's like, well, that's crazy. Obviously, I want a balloon ride. I have no idea the difference. They don't understand the difference because and rightfully so. How would they? Why would they understand the difference?

We're all familiar with hotels. We know that different hotels are different prices. You get different levels of service. We get restaurants. We understand McDonald's is not the same as Ruth's Chris Steakhouse or whatever. And the private guide or shared guide thing is interesting because, and you correct me if I'm wrong, but my idea is you can book through a tour app or you can book a 14 -day package, stay in at three or four different game camps that are all probably very good game camps.

And you go there and each morning it's like, okay, we're going to meet the guide at seven o 'clock, whatever, after breakfast. And you go out and you stand with your group of other guests that are staying at the lodge that night. And that changes every night. And you climb into a vehicle with them and you've got your guide and your spotter up front and you go out for the day and you. It's cool. I'm not going to say it's not cool, especially if you've never been to Africa, but the, but then the difference is you've got this 14 day trip and you've got somebody like yourself.

Ant Kaschula (1:07:25)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Elkins (1:07:34)
along for the entire ride and it's you get to know the people and you're able to after a day or two, I mean, you've already customized it before they've come, but that changes as you get through the course, you're like, I know these people really like this type of thing. So we're going to go do this and you don't have to worry about, what are the other eight people and the vehicle or the other four, the other eight vehicles from the camp? Because I know I've guided group trips before where, you know, as

fishing guide, I'd have my boat and my clients, and then we'd have eight other boats that were going out that day. And we'd all coordinate what stretch of the river we're to float today based on the overall operational, you know, necessities. Maybe that's transfers, that's lunches. We're all going to stop at one place and do lunch. And you're tied to what everybody else wants to do. And the private guide is like every day you wake up and just go do whatever you want to do. It's a huge, huge difference. So

Ant Kaschula (1:08:20)
Yes.

Yeah, yeah. It's a huge difference. Absolutely. And Jason also just to say is that typically whoever plans the trip, whether it's the mom or the dad or whoever kind of plans a safari, the problem that also happens when they get out on safari and they haven't got a private guide, you've not got the whole family saying, okay, dad, so what are you going to do tomorrow? And okay, dad, well, what are we doing here? And okay, dad or mom or whoever it is, what is this? Whereas when I come into do some as I as I meet them and say guys,

Jason Elkins (1:08:32)
I'm happy that came

Ant Kaschula (1:08:57)
I'm in charge of absolutely everything. Any has got any question, dad, you've planned the trip and you've paid for it. You're on holiday as well now. Everyone comes to me. You're on holiday now and this is what's gonna happen. Guys, make sure you all have a pee because we're gonna be in the truck for 20 minutes until we get to the hotel. Then when we get to the hotel, we're gonna do ABCDNE, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm doing all that lot. So guys are like, whoa, this is awesome. I'm actually, because so often,

Jason Elkins (1:09:05)
I love

Ant Kaschula (1:09:27)
They find that that everyone's nagging them and asking the size that and they haven't got the answers to those questions. They don't know how long it's going to Yeah.

Jason Elkins (1:09:31)
They don't know because the guide they were just with today dropped them off out in front of the camp and disappeared. And you're not going to see them again till tomorrow at 9. And you have no way of even guessing what you're doing the next day. Yeah, that's cool.

Ant Kaschula (1:09:42)
Yep, yep.

Absolutely. So that's why I'm at dinner saying, guys tomorrow morning always sitting around the dinner table and the next thing we hear lines roaring out of camp. Guys, put your knives and forks down right now. We're going. So many other guests will. The guys has gone back to his room and the cars parked somewhere else. So I'm always ready to provide those little things that you just end up so often missing out on.

Jason Elkins (1:09:53)
Let's

And.

Yeah, and you just won't know until you get there if you do it, you know? So just take our word for it. And I'm going to have a link to your website. It's a good branding website. It's a lot of beautiful photos. And it's a good way to connect with you. So I'd encourage anybody listening to this that's ever thought, whether you're a travel agent or a operator, we already discussed that. But obviously, anybody thinking about going to Africa, would suggest they take a look.

Ant Kaschula (1:10:14)
Take the plunge.

Jason Elkins (1:10:33)
at your website, but more importantly, reach out and connect with you because I think that's where the magic happens is having that conversation and you can kind of help guide them through not necessarily what they want to do, but what they need to do.

Ant Kaschula (1:10:38)
Mm

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely, Jason. And that's it. so often we have this like, our friends have just been to wherever and we have to go there. I'm like, whoa, I would never ever go there. No, you definitely don't want to go there. They might have had a good time there. quite honestly, there are 1000 places that would have a much better time. And that's where you...

Jason Elkins (1:10:56)
You

You know what? This thought just came up that used to drive me crazy because I discussed the differences between different types of balloon rides. And I'd go out with my clients and we'd fly in a totally different area than everybody else. And it was a totally different experience. And I was always excited to read the reviews. I always had amazing reviews. And then I'd go look at the reviews for some of the other balloon ride businesses that I knew were just a totally different experience. And they all had good reviews too. And I'm like,

How can this be possible that my clients are writing reviews that are very similar to the client that stood in a basket with 20 people and it's because they have no frame of reference? If you've never been in a balloon, it's going to be cool. I promise you. Even if you're with 20 people, it's going to feel like a cool experience. You've never done it before and you're going to go back to your friends and you're going to say, oh, we went on a balloon ride when we were in Arizona and here's the company we went with. You need to go with

but they don't have that frame of reference. So I think it's kind of the same thing that you're discussing is just be open. If you don't understand why something's a little bit more expensive, like a balloon ride or private guided safari, call and have a conversation. At least ask.

Because when people call me and say, why are you so much more expensive? Well, this is why this is what it's going to be like. And this is how it's different. You want to propose to your girlfriend. Wouldn't it be great if it was just you and your girlfriend and me in the basket, 10 ,000 feet above the air holding champagne glasses and me taking pictures? Or would you rather do it with 20 other people? So anyway, thank you. Yeah, please.

You

Yeah. And it's just a great analogy because there's so much, it's like the difference between a Jeep, a Willy's Jeep ride with your guide and two or three people you know, or in a bus. You're gonna be able to go places that you just can't go. it's that. anyway, great conversation. I appreciate you.

look forward to collaborating with you on some projects in the future and hopefully visiting with you in Africa someday.

Thanks, Ant. Appreciate you. Talk to you soon.

Yeah, it's actually not done. haven't stopped the recording yet, but I'll edit this little last bit out. Hold on a second.