Adventure Travel with Bruce McLean - BnB Colombia Tours

Area/Topic
Colombia, Incentive Travel

Bruce McLean
Founder
BnB Colombia Tours

I’m a Kiwi who found a home in the heart of the Colombian Coffee Zone after falling in love with this incredible country (and a girl) back in 2009. Now settled in a small town here, I’ve had the adventure of traveling across Colombia, discovering its breathtaking diversity, and connecting with amazing people. It’s these experiences that inspired me to start BnB Colombia Tours, where I get to share my love for this vibrant country by creating unforgettable travel experiences.

Building on the success of BnB, I launched Incentive Travel Colombia to focus on the amazing world of MICE travel. We design flexible, personalized experiences that bring teams together in ways that not only inspire but leave a lasting positive impact on company culture.

https://bnbcolombia.com/

summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Bruce McLean, founder of B&B Colombia Tours. Bruce shares his journey from New Zealand to Colombia, detailing his experiences in hospitality and tourism. The conversation explores the beauty and challenges of traveling in Colombia, including safety concerns, cultural insights, and the importance of understanding local customs. Bruce emphasizes the friendly nature of Colombians and the diverse experiences the country offers. He also discusses his business, which provides customized travel packages for visitors to Colombia, ensuring they have safe and memorable experiences.

takeaways

• Bruce McLean is a Kiwi who fell in love with Colombia during a visit in 2009.
• His background in hospitality has greatly influenced his approach to tourism.
• Colombia is known for its friendly and helpful people, especially outside of Bogota.
• Travelers should be aware of safety concerns and avoid certain areas.
• Understanding local culture and customs enhances the travel experience.
• B&B Colombia Tours offers customized travel packages for various types of travelers.
• The importance of speaking Spanish when traveling in Colombia is emphasized.
• Colombia has a rich diversity of experiences, from nature to history.
• Traveling in Colombia requires patience and acceptance of a slower pace.
• Bruce's goal is to share the beauty of Colombia with the world.

Learn more about the Big World Made Small Podcast and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers at bigworldmadesmall.com.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.152)
Welcome back to everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Today, I'm very excited as many of you know that have listened to this before. I spend a lot of time in Colombia, so I'm very honored and very happy today to have a guest here recording this conversation who's also in Colombia and Colombia is a huge part of his life. So we're going to learn more about that as we as we discuss it with him. We've got Bruce McLean. Bruce is the founder of B &B Colombia Tours. Bruce, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

Bruce McLean (00:31.104)
Thank you, Jason. Great to be here. Happy to chat about anything to do with Columbia.

Jason Elkins (00:34.614)
Yeah, this is. All right, very cool. Well, we're going to chat a lot about you, because if anybody listening to this is already probably figured out, you don't have the Colombian accent. So we're going to discuss more than just Colombia. But I know that Colombia is something that's very passionate for both you and I. We actually met recently at I guess it was kind of a trade show, a Colombia travel trade show tourism show that Colombia was at Nature Mart.

I shouldn't have even brought it up, but it was the Columbia Nature Mart or something like that, sponsored by ProColumbia. So we met there briefly, had a conversation. I thought, man, this is a conversation we need to have and we need to the record button so others can enjoy it as well. So thank you so much. So with that being said, let's jump into, let's go back as far into the beginning as we need to go to help our listeners understand kind of how you got from wherever it was you were.

Bruce McLean (01:00.13)
Say it,

Jason Elkins (01:26.776)
to where you are now. So I don't know how far we need to go back. How far should we go?

Bruce McLean (01:31.564)
Gee, well, I'm a Kiwi, so born in New Zealand, lived in Australia for 16 odd years. I have a sister who lives in Bogota normally, and I came to visit her. I was here for about three months in 2009, and that's when I fell in love with Colombia. It's just an amazing country.

Jason Elkins (01:55.082)
So what were you doing before that? far as you know, what was your what did your world look like before you made that first trip to Columbia? And I had the same experience. I came to Columbia, I I'd visit for a month and here I am almost three years later. But I'm curious, what were you doing before that first visit to Columbia?

Bruce McLean (02:12.77)
Basically hospitality, more or less. I was working or slash managing cafes, restaurants, bars, doing events, congresses, sort of thing. A bit of everything, but hospitality, that side of the world.

Jason Elkins (02:14.487)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (02:32.236)
Okay, mostly, and you'd mentioned your Kiwi from New Zealand, but you lived in Australia and I didn't quite catch how long were you in Australia? okay. All right, that's a significant amount of time.

Bruce McLean (02:40.225)
about 16 years, 16, 17 years I think. Yeah, so quite a while, I was in September. It was in Sydney. It was a case of, I didn't plan on staying. I left New Zealand with the idea of doing the big OE, going country to country, just working in kitchens or whatever, doing dishes. And I got on a bus after about two weeks. I got on a bus when I was in Sydney and saw the girlfriend of a childhood friend.

Jason Elkins (02:51.374)
you

Bruce McLean (03:07.618)
who said, we're looking for somebody to move into our house and help us pay the rent. Sure, why not? And that was it. Stayed a decade and a half. So good.

Jason Elkins (03:14.752)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (03:19.02)
I heard you say the big OE and I'm not making the connection. What is the big OE?

Bruce McLean (03:24.386)
overseas experience. The big OE is something that every, you know, I was like, how old was I about 22, I think. And the idea was to go over and experience the world. You know, I got to Fiji, then I was going to Australia and I was going to spend a month or so there. Then I was going to carry on up through Asia and into Europe. yeah, that's as far as I got. Australia, that was it.

Jason Elkins (03:27.072)
Okay, all right.

Jason Elkins (03:52.878)
I see a pattern here, but that's cool. It's like part of you has got that ambition to go, but I think also you fall in love with places, don't you? I kind of sense that. that's been my challenge because I've been doing the big OE, I guess, for the last three years and two, two and a half years of that has been in Colombia. So I get it. Yeah, that was my intention. Just keep going. And I've gone a few other places since, but I've spent a lot more time here than I thought I would. So I get that.

Bruce McLean (03:54.88)
Yeah.

Bruce McLean (04:01.558)
Yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (04:22.316)
So you said you went to Australia when you're 22. So what were you doing? Were you working in hospitality in New Zealand before you went as well? Okay.

Bruce McLean (04:29.536)
Yeah, my first job in a restaurant, waitering, and my second job was managing a hotel restaurant. And since then, it's just been hospitality the whole time. no, no, I tell a lie. I went back to New Zealand for a year for a break because I thought, you know, maybe it's time to go back home and worked with one of my brothers, laboring and doing stuff like, you know, building a house and, you know,

fencing and all that sort of stuff and come to understand I hate that and I didn't Took me it didn't actually take me a year to understand that but I just I stayed for a year and then Now I like the other stuff more

Jason Elkins (05:02.606)
I

You

Jason Elkins (05:14.03)
All right, I get that. So let's go back a little further. What got you into that stuff in the first place growing growing up in New Zealand was where there's some family influences. I'm just curious kind of what what could you go in that path or was it completely because a lot of people end up working in restaurants and hospitality because when they're young, it's like, well, that's what I can get a job doing. And then they either hate it or they tend to stick with it and it becomes something. So I'm curious what your story is.

Bruce McLean (05:34.967)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (05:40.834)
My story, pretty much after high school, got, you know, what was it called? UE, university entrance. And all I think is I go to university for years or so sitting in front of it in a desk. And I just thought, I don't know what I want to do, but I know that I don't want a job in the future where I'm just sitting in front of a computer. That to me at that time was just like, no, couldn't think of anything worse.

And so I just thought, right, I just did a course, a one year course of the basics on hospitality and from there, that's what right. This is what I'm going to do now.

Jason Elkins (06:20.808)
Bruce, how much time in each week are you now spending in front of a computer? As you, as you and I are sitting here in front of our computers that that resonated. was like, okay. So, but it's a little different, right? Yeah. Probably look at it, spreadsheets, analytics, trying to figure out marketing strategies, all that stuff, but look at all the cool stuff you did in between.

Bruce McLean (06:23.724)
Do I? Exactly. Hey. Yeah.

I know. Good. % of my work is in front of the computer now. That's all I'm doing.

Jason Elkins (06:49.346)
And it's still related, so I don't want words in your mouth, but that's what I'm sensing. all right, right, all right, very cool. So now let's let's jump back to. Well, I actually want I want to know this, because when you're like, want to go have that big OE, what influenced that? Were there other people around you doing that? Were there people in your family that either influenced you or tried to persuade you from doing it? Or what was that like?

Bruce McLean (06:54.326)
Absolutely.

Bruce McLean (07:13.93)
I think it's just being from New Zealand, you know, it's a small country, you know, and everybody in New Zealand when growing up, it's like, you know, there's so much more to see in the world. We don't get to see that much in New Zealand or do that much. you know, so it's like most people that I knew around my age generally were going overseas. not, you know, most in reality, most would finish university, then go away. You know, I think it's called a gap year in a lot of countries.

Jason Elkins (07:17.709)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (07:42.882)
go away for a year or so, find themselves and then come back. So I was basically going to do that.

Jason Elkins (07:49.127)
I don't know how you would know these stats, but I'm curious if you just kind of have a gut instinct of what percentage of those young Kiwis that go have that OE actually come back as opposed to kind of like yourself end up in a totally different place.

Bruce McLean (08:06.562)
I think most go back. From what I know, from the people I know, most go back. Most would do like what I had the idea, know, going and working in a kitchen, you know, just washing dishes, staying in backpackers, just having fun, you know, just experiencing things and just, you know, making enough money to, you know, pay the rent for the week sort of thing. That was the idea. You know, I think that's what most do.

Jason Elkins (08:07.948)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (08:11.672)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (08:16.941)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (08:32.878)
And that aligns with my experience. I was fortunate to spend several weeks traveling around in New Zealand several years ago. And I met a lot of people that had had left and had obviously come back. There's still people there. So obviously, I guess the majority of them, if a lot of people do it and there's still people there. So obviously, guess the majority do return. But I definitely got the sense it was a very just travel friendly place, just even in New Zealand itself is.

Bruce McLean (08:47.598)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (09:01.92)
It's easy to get around. You know, it's between the North Island, South Island and all the different places. It's super easy to go rent a car and just go. You don't need to have in my experience. I didn't need to have reservations at a time. It was just like people were just doing it. It was just a thing. And I thought that was that was pretty cool. And then also, you know, I've interviewed people here on the show. I've interviewed actually a couple of Kiwis that we talked about that one of them had had basically didn't has been doing the digital nomad thing just in New Zealand.

really for several years in the camper van. And it's definitely a culture of that. So I get that. All right, so you went to Australia, met up with some people, ended up staying 16 years doing the hospitality. Is there anything there that's relevant to kind of what you're doing now that we should touch on before we jump to Columbia?

Bruce McLean (09:56.546)
No, well, it's a service industry. I sort of see that. It's basically looking at what people need and providing that service. Whether it's coming to a bar, OK, you want a beer. Restaurant, OK, this is the sort of meal, this is the sort of food you'd like. This is the wine that will go with that. It's providing that service, explaining how things.

Jason Elkins (10:01.166)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (10:24.138)
guessing or understanding what people are wanting almost before they do. It's also, I suppose, to a point, quite a bit, I suppose, is managing people as well. I learned a lot about that there. A lot about managing people, which is not an easy task or a skill. And it's something really that they should probably teach in school because people are not easy to manage because everybody obviously has their own lives.

Jason Elkins (10:28.27)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (10:34.296)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (10:47.374)
you

Bruce McLean (10:52.768)
They all have their own feelings, their own thoughts, their own goals, their own dreams, everything like that. And it's about understanding what those people want, what they need, and balancing that with what the company needs as well, the business needs.

Jason Elkins (11:10.22)
You know, and as I listen to you say that, you know, what's coming up for me is that in the tourism business, managing people is managing employees, team members, whatever you want to call them. But it's also managing clients because it's very, very similar skill set when you've got maybe you've got a group of 12 people show up and you're going to spend a week with them, either guiding them or you've put together a trip for them, managing expectations. Because what you just said.

about everybody has their own thoughts, needs, motivations. It's really, really very similar. So I can see where learning that just in the business standpoint, but even in hospitality, mean, everybody you're dealing with is kind of similar. Were you doing anything that you would, I guess, call tourism in Australia? mean, there's hospitality and tourism is so, so closely linked. But clearly what you're doing now is much more of a, you know, we're on a

Travel and Tourism podcast. So obviously what you're doing now, kind of think fits in. I'm just curious, what was the connection or how did you transition that or what do you want to share about that? I'm not sure where I'm going with this. Yeah.

Bruce McLean (12:20.834)
Why do I get into tourism? Look, what I was doing in Australia, I wouldn't say is tourism related so much. I was mainly in hospitality. at one point, I owned my own cafe as well. also, towards the end of my time there, was also importing products from Colombia.

wooden products, wooden watches, wooden phone cases, wooden sunglasses, all handmade, some beautiful stuff that you can get in Bogota. That and also creating some other wooden wedding invitations and other wooden stuff. So I was actually selling that to tourists as well.

Jason Elkins (13:06.744)
Did that come up? I'm curious. hate to interrupt you, but did that come up after your first trip to visit your sister in Columbia? Okay. All right. So.

Bruce McLean (13:12.278)
Yes. OK, so that happened after that because of that, because I also met a girl at the time. It's a common story here. But she came over to Australia in the following year to stay with me there. And we were married with,

Jason Elkins (13:19.272)
the word is peligroso, peligroso peligrosa. Yeah.

Bruce McLean (13:40.514)
don't have kids, but we've got four dogs. we both, you we live here in the coffee zone. Absolutely love it. On one of the trips that I did with her when I was in Bogota, I was going to Vigilava. And, you know, you know, for those that don't know, 480 odd years old, it's a beautiful colonial town, beautiful wooden doors, huge wooden doors, massive stone fences, know, quite a romantic place, especially walking.

walking down the streets at night because of the lamps that they have on the buildings and that sort of stuff. It is like walking back in time. But there I went and found this shop that had these wooden watches, handmade wooden watches, which I absolutely loved. Paula, my wife-to-be, remembered that, got in contact with this shop and bought two for me from them and brought them over to New Zealand. And then it was just a case of

talking to these people who are manufacturing these and talking to them about more what else that they can do and what else they can do. And then that's how that started. And then I was like, we've got to share this. People love this sort of stuff. Brought it all over to Australia and found that more tourists bought it than Australians. But that's how it is.

Jason Elkins (14:55.726)
So what was it? What do think it was? Do you? mean, I'm sure the craftsmanship, I'm sure it's a unique product, but do you think the fact that it came from Columbia resonated with people? Because I'm imagining tourists visiting Australia and say, look at this, this watch or this, whatever it is made in Columbia, I need to have this. What do you think was behind that?

Bruce McLean (15:18.562)
I think a lot of tourists, for me, people who travel are more interested in things that are authentic or things that are artisan or things that are handmade. Like here in Colombia, most of what I sell is authentic tourists, artisan tours. You meet the family who have owned a coffee farm for 70 odd years.

You burn your fingers taking off the husk of cacao, of cacao beans when you're after roasting them, know, authentic stuff. That's what I sort of think. The handmade sort of thing, authentic stuff is what people who travel like. They enjoy that sort of thing. If they just want, well, not everybody, but if they just want, you know, nice stuff, they can get that in a shopping center in their own town, you know, which is generally just made in China. But, you know,

Jason Elkins (15:49.774)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (15:59.566)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:11.406)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (16:15.36)
Having something that's handmade, it gives so much value to a product. Not as much now, I find, as what it did then. Like now, my wife actually makes handmade bags, leather bags, I should say. She's extremely talented person and can do basically anything with her hands, with leather and wood and everything, But so they'd.

Jason Elkins (16:29.803)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (16:38.659)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (16:41.558)
Before, they should be able to sell those much easier before, because know, artisan, takes like two or three days to make one. And so before, you'd sell it very easily, or quite easy. Now, not as much because they can get it from China looking just as good for a quarter of the price sort of thing. So it hasn't got the same value. But before, definitely handmade products.

Jason Elkins (16:59.83)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (17:04.558)
Do you think in your experience in Australia selling these Colombian products, did people like, but I guess I'm curious, like, okay, it's handmade, it's artisan. I get that. I hear everything you're saying there. And was there some excitement about like, was the typical tourists who would buy it say, my gosh, I love that. I've been to Columbia. I've got a connection with Columbia or did it matter at all that it was from Columbia?

Bruce McLean (17:28.554)
Most hadn't gone to Colombia. Like Colombia now, it's a boom for tourism. It started pretty much when I got here, more or less. Not because of me, but because of, know. I would say most at that time thought of Colombia Pablo Escobar. And obviously Netflix doesn't help in that matter. But having said that, it's because of him that Colombia got on the map. And it's because of him.

Jason Elkins (17:56.023)
Mmm.

Bruce McLean (17:58.368)
what in the 80s into the 90s, that's when Columbia got really known. Shortly after that, or at that time, is when backpackers started coming here. Because young people want an adventure. A lot of them would have thought that Pablo's cool, even though he's a mass murderer, killed over 3,000 people, including a plain load of people and babies. but because of them coming here in those

Jason Elkins (18:24.056)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (18:28.226)
90s more and early 2000s, then those people grow up and are now in their 40s and 50s. And they have been able to, you know, that's not that bad. I was there when I was young. I'd like to go back again, see these other places and they can tell other people who didn't go. know, so that that's how I see how the progression and things have happened with Colombia. But at that time, selling in Sydney,

Jason Elkins (18:47.788)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (18:58.208)
No, everybody who is like Columbia, wow, has it got any cocaine in it? Yeah, of course it has. Of course, yeah, I brought that just to sell the wooden boxes. But anyway.

Jason Elkins (19:02.882)
yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's it's an interesting place with an interesting history. I appreciate you sharing your perspective on it, because that's one I hadn't really thought about. And because there's obviously a lot of very negative things that went along with with Pablo Escobar. And but you know, what came up for me as I was thinking, you know, a place like Vietnam, for example.

is there's a lot of Americans that are going to Vietnam right now. You know, it's a kind of a popular spot. And you almost wonder if nothing had ever happened there in Vietnam. Would you would people even know about it? Because it's a relatively small country and a place that's kind of hard to get to. And so anyway, that's just interesting. Interesting that you brought that up. OK, so you you came. Tell us more. Tell us more of the story.

Bruce McLean (19:44.384)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (19:58.626)
more of the story. My first, well the three months that I was here, just as I said, fell in love with it. I got to the Amazon, loved my time there. Went to Buena Vantura and the Pacific Coast, not during whale season, but it was still fantastic, loved it. Shouldn't have actually gone at that time because it was quite a dodgy time, but you know, young.

not the most intelligent at that time either.

Jason Elkins (20:30.852)
Is there is there a story there, Bruce? I want to skip passes. It sounds like there's a story there. Do you want interested in sharing that? When anybody says I shouldn't have went, it was dodgy. I feel like, OK, tell us the story.

Bruce McLean (20:36.473)
NOS

No, was just, you know.

Bruce McLean (20:45.634)
Well, not everywhere in Colombia is safe to go. You know, there are paramilitary, there are FARC, or the We're FARC, now the FARC dissidents. There are different illegal armed groups in different areas. Buena Ventura is one of the most corrupt ports in the world, but it's where a lot of merchandise comes in of Colombia, mainly from China, realistically, unfortunately, as is most of the world.

But there, because obviously where there's corruption, then there's unsadhery people and where there's a port in Colombia, that means product can go out, whether it's cocaine or marijuana or people, people smuggling as well, and guns can come in. So it's an area that

Jason Elkins (21:35.031)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (21:38.7)
Okay.

Bruce McLean (21:41.672)
Over the years has been, it's a lot safer now, I should say. Mention that. It's a lot safer now. There's been a piece, I would say almost a year, I think, where it's quite safe and we can actually send people there. They've got a hotel that I like to send people there to now called Estacion, which is really nice hotel. It's got over 100 years old. So shout out to them for listening to get them a free plug. at that time it was some

Pirates, I suppose you could say, who would stop boats going from one point to another point and basically just robbed the people. And that happened just a couple of weeks before I went there. so was a, they robbed a good 20, 30 odd people who were on a boat going on a tour to one place. And I happened to go the same route, which, know, not the smartest, but, you know, but those with other people who

Jason Elkins (22:38.85)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (22:41.42)
who I put faith in because I had lived in Colombia for a year or two or more. So, but obviously I shouldn't have put faith in it. But nothing bad happened. It was fine. Everything was good. Went there, had a great time.

Jason Elkins (22:51.503)
It's one of those cases where, yeah, where oftentimes you go somewhere and you might hear, you should have been here two weeks ago. The whales were breaching or the this or the that. And this is a case where it's good thing. It's good thing you weren't here two weeks ago. So, but it, yeah, that kind of creates a little bit more adrenaline maybe when you're there. I remember, yeah, I remember going on a fishing trip in Canada and this guide.

Bruce McLean (23:02.615)
Yeah.

Bruce McLean (23:12.546)
Yeah mate, yeah.

Jason Elkins (23:20.142)
pretty much everywhere we walked. was a walking, a walk-in trip to this place to fish. And he was saying, Hey bear, Hey bear, the whole time, you know, and explaining to us that there's a lot of bears here and that if the bear hears you, then there, you know, we don't want to surprise them. So he would just be talking to the bears to alert the bears. And, and I thought afterwards, I thought that was really adrenaline packed. was like exciting. It was like, you know, we were adrenaline pumping through our veins at the end of the day. When we got back, we were exhausted. We'd had a

Bruce McLean (23:44.706)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (23:49.336)
amazing day. And I was like, man, that's pretty good guide technique, even if there's no bears. He created a level of excitement in us that that we wouldn't have had, you know, I mean, I know, I know the area I grew up in the Rocky Mountains. I know there's bears, but if if somebody didn't know any different, they would still have an exciting trip. So I wonder, like, watch out. We're watching for the pirates because two weeks ago, you know, but it's not really a joke because it's a serious thing that Colombia has gone through.

Bruce McLean (23:55.382)
Yeah, yeah.

Bruce McLean (24:15.478)
No. Exactly.

Jason Elkins (24:19.118)
But at the same time, definitely created, it left a memorable, you know, memorable experience for you. So, so now after sharing that story, let's talk about how do you deal with the, the perceptions of people have about Columbia? Cause you just said there's places that are dangerous, not all Columbia is safe. And you're in the business of helping people arrange tours. You're in the business of helping people, you know, make choices about what areas to go to, what places to.

to see places to see things to see. So somebody that's listening to this that's thinking about going to Columbia that maybe is thinking I'll just do it myself because the internet is amazing. Or is that a good idea? Or is it really important to speak with someone like yourself that I mean, what do you tell people?

Because if I'm going to New Zealand, I don't feel like I need to speak to anybody realistically. know, I can go rent a car. I can find everything online. I don't need that at all. But Colombia is a little different. Latin America is a little different.

Bruce McLean (25:11.724)
Nah, nah New Zealand, you can find everything online.

Bruce McLean (25:22.786)
It is. Look, if you can speak Spanish, you can do it. You don't need my help. You can find all the information you need online. All that I'd say is just be aware of the situation, who's around you, and don't use a bus. That simple, really. Don't rent a car either, actually. Don't do that. Don't rent a car. Driving here is a different experience.

Jason Elkins (25:46.266)
You

Okay, don't rent a car. Don't dig a bus. What does that leave us?

Bruce McLean (25:53.794)
Yeah, you can use transport operators, I suppose. can book hotels, book the hotels yourself. Many hotels will be able to give you details on tours. A lot of hotels actually get permission themselves based on the tours that they recommend anyway. They're not always at the highest level, but then again, it's going to depend on what you pay.

what your budget is. Obviously, if you want to do it yourself, generally your budget's not that good. I don't want to sound negative like that. It's not that it's not that good. Your budget isn't adequate enough to...

Jason Elkins (26:23.502)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (26:30.124)
Hahaha!

It's usually Mike. That's usually my case. I do a lot of do it yourself stuff and that's pretty much the reason. So I get it.

Bruce McLean (26:40.19)
Exactly. know a lot of people go and say they're doing it to go at their own pace and all that sort of stuff, which I'm happy. It's great. If you can go at your own pace, fantastic. if you want to use the services of somebody who's going to be there, 24-7 available to make sure your transport is going to be there, your guide is going to be there. Plan your hotels. Work out exactly the best method for you to get from point A to point B, what you're going to see at this time of year.

Go to there for the wildlife at this time of year or here bird watching or here for the whales or monkeys or if it's a culture you want, if you want to go for a festival, then you need to pay for something or talk to somebody and then pay for their services. But if you are on a tight budget, if you can speak Spanish, great, you'll be fine. Just book your accommodation from

Jason Elkins (27:23.416)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (27:37.58)
Book your accommodation and see, and through the hotels, you should be able to get some OK experiences. It won't necessarily be the best experience for your two weeks or three or month or whatever or how much time you have here. But it's still going to be good.

Jason Elkins (27:46.563)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (27:55.202)
You I think also you mentioned, you know, if you can speak Spanish and maybe if you're trying to, you know, save some money, you can do it. You can do a lot of stuff on your own. And I've also noticed just by being around here so much, there's such there's so much information and I'm going to say contradictory information. So I think in order to really do it, you got to really invest a fair amount of time and and just recognize that

You're going to read one person's going to say this place is incredibly dangerous. You should not go there. And then you're going to find another article that's like, this is the hidden gem of Antiochia or whatever. And it's amazing. And nobody knows about it. And and everybody is so friendly. So that's the biggest challenge. OK, I speak Spanish. I am comfortable booking hotels by myself, but there's so much contradictory information you can spend hours and hours and hours or I see in the Facebook groups.

Every day and the Columbia expat groups or the digital nomad groups or whatever groups there's somebody coming in. I read this. I heard this. Can you what do you think? And then you get 150 responses that are all completely different. So I think time is something as well that if you're listening to this. If you don't have a lot, you know. If you don't have a lot of time, that's another reason really to connect with somebody like like you, Bruce or.

You know, there's there's some great, great resources out there to just kind of cut through that. And also things change. You literally just said Bonaventura Bonaventura. I'm saying it right now. You know, you mentioned like, it's pretty, it's good now for a year, I think is what you said. I heard you say a year. So the point there is things change a lot. So if you're reading an article, you know, post that was two years old, two, a two year old, a two year old blog post normally.

Bruce McLean (29:47.042)
You're not.

Jason Elkins (29:50.318)
It's pretty, you you're going to think, that's pretty recent. You know, if you're reading about technology, even technology two years isn't that old. But when we're in a culture like this, the things change frequently. I think, what do you think?

Bruce McLean (30:04.522)
I agree completely. Look, there are some places in Colombia where we take people, which I've always taken people, some places where I've weren't so safe to go to, then it became safe. And now I'm like, look, I'll book everything, make sure. But if it gets to the point where even if it's the day before and I don't think it's safe, you won't be going.

Jason Elkins (30:30.51)
That's another good point of having someone like you there.

Bruce McLean (30:32.662)
which has happened, you know, unfortunately it happened. Yeah, it happened to us a couple of years ago, or a year ago, where there was a couple of different, two different groups going, up going to the same destination and we couldn't take them there just because it was like, within a couple of weeks, it had become unsafe. It was just really annoying, really.

Jason Elkins (30:50.318)
Yeah. I've noticed that even just being here, spend and I've been around quite a bit, but most of my time is in Medellin and every once in a while something will happen up in the hills and they're like, okay, don't go to these pueblos right now. There's you don't want to be there and they're popular places. They're easy places to get to. It's very easy to hop on a bus and go to one of these pueblos. And if you're not paying attention to what's going on, you know, you could show up there and be like, what am I doing here? But also I've noticed

that most Colombians have very strong opinions about safety that may not necessarily be based on current events because there's kind of some generational stuff that's happened here. I do take buses. I'm pretty adventurous and don't have a of money to pay people to drive me around. I do take buses quite often, but even in the city, sometimes in some of that I was in.

Bukit Amonga not too long ago and I did a big loop, Baranki and I'm in some of these places and I'll ask people where's the bus to go wherever. And 90 % of the time they look at me and say, don't take a bus, it's not safe. Don't you have Uber on your phone? know? And then. But they'll get on the bus, but they look at me and they're like you should be taking an Uber. You have no business being on the bus.

Bruce McLean (32:08.14)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (32:14.572)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bruce McLean (32:18.913)
Yep.

Jason Elkins (32:20.322)
But then also I do take buses a lot. I'm mostly in the cities. I have been fortunate. I have not seen any issues and I kind of enjoy the experience. But you mentioned don't take buses. So I want to circle back to that and take advantage of the fact that I've got you on the you've been in Columbia longer than I have. You've got more experience. So what should I know about buses that may not be so obvious?

Bruce McLean (32:45.25)
Light-fingered people, basically. Generally, Columbia is a place where if you're going to get robbed, they want to do it without you knowing. It's extremely unlikely that unless you're at the wrong place, wrong time, well, how do I wear it? I always advise everybody to be aware of the situation around you. But there's also a lot of common sense. If there's a dark alley or dark street, don't walk down it. Quite simple, just common sense.

Jason Elkins (32:48.951)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (33:12.493)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (33:15.134)
If it's an opportunity there for somebody to rob you, they may or there might not be anybody. So don't give the opportunity. On a bus, Colombians are smaller people than most people, Europeans, I should say, or normal people. Because, obviously, the indigenous influence there is smaller. So bus seats are smaller.

Jason Elkins (33:20.622)
Mm-mm.

Jason Elkins (33:33.474)
Mm-hmm.

Sure sure

Bruce McLean (33:45.314)
Everything's a little bit smaller. It's a bit more compact. It's not necessarily most comfortable, which does give easy opportunity for those people with light fingers to be able to go and put an arm around you and to be a bag and to, you know, from under the seat or behind the seat or whatever, that sort of thing. So it's not that sort of thing. And being an foreigner, you're straight away a target, you know, for that sort of stuff. You know, it's a simple thing. Same reason that we tell all of our travelers, you know, when you're out, you're not going to be going out with your passport.

Jason Elkins (34:03.916)
Okay.

Bruce McLean (34:15.446)
You've got a photocopy of your passport, your passport staying in your hotel room. You know, you're going to come over, bring over two credit cards, two debit cards, leave one seat in the hotel room, just in case, worst case scenario, you might lose a wallet. You know, that's all.

Jason Elkins (34:30.011)
I think one thing on the bus and being a target, it's interesting because when I first came here, I had a close friend that was, she's like, do not use your phone on the bus. She didn't think I should get on a bus at all, but she's like, do not use your phone on the bus. Do not use your phone on the Metro. But, you know, I get on the bus and everybody has their phone out. So it's very easy to fall into that. OK, it's completely safe. Obviously they're using their phones. I can use my phone, but.

My phone is probably more likely to be a bigger reward for, you know, for somebody that does want to try and take it because I'm more likely probably to have, you know, the, apple phone, as opposed to a lot of locals are using, you know, different types of phones. And, there's that. And if they do take something out of my pocket, if they get a wallet, there's more likely to be, you know, credit cards in there or things like that, that, that, you know, the typical person on the bus is probably.

Bruce McLean (35:05.612)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (35:28.418)
You know, probably has 20 or 30 mil in their pocket, if that and have a fairly inexpensive phone that works for them. Great. And I would would suggest anybody that's going to spend a lot of time here might as well just get one of those phones. I know when I when my phone dies or disappears, I'm going to go get the same phone everybody else here has because they work. But and the other thing is the way the bus drivers drive, it's a bouncy bumpy ride.

And if you, if you're thinking where would I want to, where might I have the opportunity to accidentally bump into somebody and take something out of their pocket? It would be on a bus because every two or three minutes, the bus driver slamming on the brakes and everybody's bouncing into each other or on the Metro when the door is getting ready to close and there's still 14 people outside the door trying to get in. There's a lot of bumping and grinding going on. So,

Bruce McLean (35:54.964)
Exactly, yeah.

Bruce McLean (36:06.474)
It's easy. Yeah.

Bruce McLean (36:14.882)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (36:24.534)
Yeah, when you're packed in there like sardines, that's easy. And you've got to remember, your phone will pay for the food and everything for their family for a month or two. It's just how it is.

Jason Elkins (36:25.134)
It's okay, all right.

Uh-huh.

Jason Elkins (36:36.844)
Yeah, because the the what they call the minimum wage here. And I don't know. You probably know it better than I do, but it's somewhere around 300 bucks a month, right? And I think. And I yeah, and I think that's they call that the minimum wage, but I've also heard that kind of referred to as that's the wage or the average wage, because we can think minimum well, OK, minimum wage is 300 bucks a month, but I'm sure the only people, you know.

Bruce McLean (36:48.226)
It would be about, yeah, $3,350, yeah.

Jason Elkins (37:06.126)
young people working in restaurants making minimum wage. But here it's, you know, 30, 40 year old, 50 year olds, they're working six days a week, busting their butts off and they've been doing that job for a long time and they're still making pretty much the same thing. So it's a little different here. So when you hear 300 is the minimum wage, I don't want anybody listening to this to think, well, that's just the beginning wage because a lot of people continue that.

Bruce McLean (37:11.861)
a lot.

Bruce McLean (37:25.058)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (37:35.084)
I've met accountants that, know, educated accountants that are making maybe $500 a month after, you know, years doing the work. it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting thing. That's all another conversation. But the people are great, aren't they? I mean, I just love the people. That's why let's, let's, let's touch on the positives. You know, you married a Colombian woman.

You know, you've got a team, you know, and a business working with a lot of Colombians. So what is it that people should know about the Colombian culture and personality or just people that they might not recognize if it's all they know is Pablo Escobar and what we just discussed about people stealing stuff on the bus.

Bruce McLean (38:18.356)
It is an extremely friendly place. Very helpful. It doesn't really, with the exception of Bogota. But it's, Bogota is high altitude, it's cold. Nobody's happy when it's cold and traffic's horrible. For me, any place that's got a lot of traffic and it's cold, people aren't going to be happy. So they're not like...

Jason Elkins (38:28.952)
you

Jason Elkins (38:44.334)
Yeah.

Bruce McLean (38:46.464)
friendly, happy sort of people in Bogota. Everywhere else, they're friendly, happy, helpful. If you're on the street, look lost, they will stop and ask if you need help. They will get out a piece of paper to draw a map or actually walk with you to where you're going. That is what Colombians are. And the coffee zone where I live, it is the friendliest place in Colombia as well, but everywhere.

Jason Elkins (38:58.069)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (39:05.58)
Yeah. Yeah.

Bruce McLean (39:16.814)
anybody, know, everywhere in Colombia. If you need help, and even though we're talking about the bad things in Colombia, but that is, it's a one percenters, you know, that's, it's not the 99 % of the people. Most are extremely nice, extremely friendly, extremely honest, hardworking. They, they want to help you. They want to promote Colombia. They want everything to go well for you, your family, everybody. They, you know, it's just how it is.

Jason Elkins (39:43.96)
You know, the first question people usually ask me is, what do you think of Columbia? You know, and I say, my gosh, I love it. It's my favorite place in the world. And their eyes just light up. They're so proud. And they'll just say, I'm so happy to hear that you love my country. You know, and they, and they love their country. And even though, even when they're like, you know, maybe they have ideas of maybe going to the U S or finding other places they can, you know, go and earn some money.

Bruce McLean (39:56.064)
Hmm.

Bruce McLean (39:59.391)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (40:13.294)
They want to come back, you know, it's not because they don't love Columbia. It's they are just so excited about it. And here in your region as well, you know, for our listeners, anybody from this region, the kind of the Andes coffee region around not not all of the Andes, but around Medellin anyway, people from the areas called known as Paisas. And I always just people ask me, where are you from? And I say I'm Paisa. So Paisa.

Bruce McLean (40:14.933)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (40:39.99)
So I paisa de Estados Unidos means I'm a paisa from the United States. in my in my corazón, so paisa in my and they just light up. They just think that's so cool that that I identify with that. And you mentioned people, you know, giving you directions or helping you find places. It's amazing. Like there have been so many times that I'm lost and I ask somebody for a bus stop, for example, even though they're trying to talk me out of getting on the bus, they will walk me to the bus stop.

Very seldom do they, you know, just like, it's that way. Sometimes, sometimes people point the direction, well, it's over there, you know, over there. But normally they'll just walk me, come on, let's go. And sometimes I think, it's probably on the street corner. Isn't that nice? They got to walk me to the corner because they think I can't find it on my own. And then like five minutes later, we're still walking. And if I didn't know better, I think where are they taking me? This is a little sketchy.

Bruce McLean (41:14.188)
Yeah.

Bruce McLean (41:32.93)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (41:38.99)
But then eventually we get to the West Top and then they'll sit and wait with me to make sure get on the right bus. You know, that's so cool. I've been. Yeah, I've been to 30 some countries. I've never. It's why when I came here, I thought I'd stay a month and why, you know, why I'm still here. Or if you drop something, you know, I'm pretty sure that if you were just a social experiment, if you walk down the street here and drop some cash on the ground, I.

Bruce McLean (41:44.716)
That's, yeah, that's how they are.

Jason Elkins (42:05.09)
think they're more likely to somebody's more likely to stop you and say something than they would be pretty much anywhere in the US. And I'm not knocking the US it's just in my experience. I remember you know, back home it was common to you know, you go have coffee somewhere. I used to go to coffee with my grandparents and they'd always leave a few coins on the table as a tip. I remember the first time I left some coins on the table here and in a penitentiary which is basically a coffee shop and lady chased me out on the street senior senior.

Because I left money on the table. I was like blown away. So anyway, anyway, let's let's let's chat a little bit more about your business. I want to make sure anybody that's listening to this really kind of has an understanding of what BNB Columbia tours does, what you don't do and how you might be able to to support them or just really anything you want to discuss about the business.

Bruce McLean (42:58.336)
OK, what we do? We do custom packages, whether it's called fit tours. But basically, we customize the tour for one person up to 12, more or less, whether it's a single traveler, couples, families, multi-generational families, and going to different locations. Basically, we only take people to the safe locations. If it's not safe to go, we just don't take people there. Quite simple.

Whether it be the Amazon, they want nature, hiking, if they want to go in wildlife and Casanadi, then it's the most spectacular wildlife location for me. It's wonderful. If they want history and 12,000 year old rock paintings, we've got Guadalajara, San Agustin for pre-Colombia tombs and statues and sculptures as Casanadi.

I've already said to Casanare, I Guadalajara, Guajira, you know, for so much indigenous culture up there and Santa Marta and the beauty of the Caribbean, Cartagena. It's just, there's so much, there's so much, so many locations.

Jason Elkins (44:09.879)
lot of stuff in there.

Does the typical person that reaches out to you, do they have kind of an idea of where they want to go? Or is it like, want to go to Columbia and I have no idea.

Bruce McLean (44:25.312)
Most people think they have an idea. Like, I have a form on my website for people to complete, which is, you know what destination you'd like to go to? And then below that is what sort of experiences you'd like to go. Generally, it's the experiences that we focus on. And we talk to them about what experiences they want. Do they want beaches? Do they want wildlife? Do they want hiking? Do they want sun, heat?

Jason Elkins (44:28.243)
okay.

Jason Elkins (44:43.694)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (44:53.058)
you know, what is it that you actually want to do? Then we tell them, OK, this is where we can take you. This place, this place, this place. How much time have you got? That. OK. So we've got to cut out a few things and work out the best way to maximize your time here. You're obviously, know, generally it's a case of you can't see everything in one time because it's going to take you a good six months. So it's case of finding the things to go and see in your couple of weeks or whatever time you have this year.

Jason Elkins (44:53.474)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (45:23.394)
work out a plan for the following year or two years or three years later, and then we can go again. But it's always a case of maximizing their time, depending on what time of year they're coming as well. That affects things a lot also, obviously.

Jason Elkins (45:39.234)
I know you've got different types of travelers, but I'm also curious, what's the average length of time? When you say how much time do you have, what's your average response?

Bruce McLean (45:51.19)
Depends where they're coming from. If they're coming from Europe, we're looking two, three weeks, up to four. Coming from the US, generally less than two weeks, nine to 12 days. It depends. A lot of people will try to come on, they'll leave on a Friday. So they've got that weekend. They've got the full week. And then they've got the next weekend as well. So they might only take.

Jason Elkins (46:07.939)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (46:19.17)
So they'll be taking a week's holiday plus another day or two trying to work it out with the public holidays that they have over there. So it depends where they're coming from. Probably on average, most of their clientele from the US. but around, look, if it's a multi-generational family, around 12 days to 14. If it's retirees or people over 50, which is most of my clientele realistically are over 50.

Jason Elkins (46:47.47)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (46:48.674)
So they've got that extra cash and they can take that extra time, know, two, three weeks, four weeks sort of thing. They really get to spend their time, enjoy the destinations. Because if you don't have a lot of time, you're rushed. know, I recommend, know, strongly recommend to do you know, minimum three, if not four days in any destination. You lose half a day getting there, half a day leaving. So you want to have a couple of days that really enjoy a location.

Jason Elkins (47:16.632)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (47:17.45)
Otherwise, what you're doing, you're just coming, rushing, going, everything, taking photos, and then you're going to enjoy the destination a month later when you're going through your phone. It's not the way. Well, it's not the way I like to travel, but we do have travelers who like it.

Jason Elkins (47:33.243)
Well, I suspect it's almost a cultural thing because one of the things definitely about Colombia is things move slower, which I think is a good thing. And if you're coming from the US with that mindset, I want to see as many things as I possibly can in the shortest amount of time. I actually think that would be incredibly frustrating for a lot of people because I go to the mall and I've been I've.

been traveling for three years, most of that here. And I still get frustrated because if I'm in a hurry, if I'm like, I need to go get this, this and that, the lines are slow. The people just move at a different pace and that's good. So I would invite people that are thinking about coming here, logistic, except that. And I'm not saying that everything's going to be late and your drivers are going to be late. I'm not saying any of that. I'm just saying the culture just moves slower. And I think you'll enjoy it a lot more if you can just.

Bruce McLean (48:25.282)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (48:28.79)
Slow down if you're always like, OK, we got to go to the next place. We got to go next place. We got to go the next place. You might get frustrated with your driver or your guide or whatever, because your guides like, wait, we got to go see this. We got to go see that and accept that. That's beautiful. That that gives you the opportunity to see things that you wouldn't have otherwise seen. You know, and you show up and tell your guide, hey, we've got. We only have four hours and then we got to be on the other side of the valley. You're going to miss things.

Bruce McLean (48:36.054)
You just can't do it. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jason Elkins (48:58.222)
if you, you know, so I'm happy you mentioned that.

Bruce McLean (48:59.806)
Exactly. The guides know the timing. They know when we need to be at certain places for a reason. You you can't, you just can't force, force things here at all, really, whether it be time or anything. can't, anything you can't.

Jason Elkins (49:05.204)
Mm-hmm. Yep. So give.

Jason Elkins (49:13.326)
Any anything. It is what it is and you just like the more you can just accept. well, I came here because I wanted to see the culture. So embrace the culture. It just is what it is. If you ask for you know a lemon lime soda. I had this experience not too long ago. It's like I could see the bottle. It looked kind of like 7 up and I was like.

Bruce McLean (49:30.206)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (49:42.422)
Is that, you know, gaseousa de limon, you know, lemon soda or something like that. And she's like, no, no, I, no, I don't have it. I don't have, I don't have lemonade or whatever. I'm like, well, you know, what is that? And I pointed right at it. said, this is, this is water, carbonated water with lemon. Okay. And sugar, obviously when I opened it, like, so it's just like, you just got to accept that sometimes, you know, there's going to be some community. And of course.

Bruce McLean (50:02.012)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Elkins (50:11.864)
Part of it's my Spanish, I'm sure, I'll give her credit, but maybe not. It's just, just enjoy it. Cause things are not going to make sense here, but they call it the land of magical surrealism. it magical surrealism? It's kind of, yeah. Yeah.

Bruce McLean (50:26.472)
Exactly, that was one of the slogans not so long ago. Now there's a country beauty, which it really is. It's the people, it's the nature, the culture, the history. It has something for everybody. is, that's the, for me, there is no reason not to come here. If you want a vacation, it doesn't matter what you want to do. If you want to do those extreme sports, if you want to go bird watching, if you just want to hike in the mountains, go

cycling if you want to, know, anything you could possibly want to do in any country in the world. Columbia has it. There's no reason to go elsewhere.

Jason Elkins (51:03.598)
Yeah. Plus, plus the really cool stuff that I mean, it seems like every day I see something and honestly, the thought goes through my head is only in Columbia, you know, and that's the, you know, the guy riding, driving the motorcycle with his wife on the back, holding the big screen TV and, then he's got the dog on his lap and the toddler hanging on the back and you're like, Whoa, or, I was in Montezalas not too long ago and it was like,

Bruce McLean (51:23.02)
Yeah, yeah.

Bruce McLean (51:28.17)
Exactly.

Jason Elkins (51:33.486)
10 o'clock at night and I'm walking back to my room and there's a guy walking down the street holding a porcelain toilet on his shoulder. You know, the whole toilet just walking down the street. It just seems so odd. But I love it. I just, there was something I saw that, yeah, it's an interesting, interesting place because you never know what you're going to see.

Bruce McLean (51:42.934)
Yep.

Bruce McLean (51:52.278)
No, it's exactly like here where I live. It's a small town, 12,000 people. And the school bus here is a Willis Jeep. Not just one, there's obviously many of them. So I love it. In the morning, we're walking a dog for afternoon and you'll see the Willis Jeeps just packed full of kids in school uniforms, standing on the back, sitting on the roof. does.

Jason Elkins (52:14.648)
Just makes you smile, doesn't it? I mean, yeah, it's just like every day.

Bruce McLean (52:17.898)
I'm jealous that I didn't grow up in this culture, you know, that's how I feel about that.

Jason Elkins (52:22.318)
I wish I would have came here. Yeah, a long time ago, 20, 30 years ago, you know, because there's there's just so much to see and do. And why wait until it's, you know, you're later in life? But anyway, we've talked a lot about that. Anything else about the I mean, obviously, you've got your website. We're going to have your website linked in the show notes. That's a great, great resource so people can kind of get an idea of what you do. Reach out to you. What's the you mentioned a form on there? What's the.

Bruce McLean (52:25.493)
Exactly, me too.

Bruce McLean (52:42.251)
Okay.

Jason Elkins (52:50.688)
What should people expect if they go on your website, fill out the form? Will they then book a call with you guys or what does that normally look like?

Bruce McLean (52:58.81)
A couple of different things. We're actually going to go and renovate the website a little bit in the future, not too far away, which is probably going to be that you and I about AI, but AI getting out of there. So it won't necessarily be the traditional form that we have there now, but it'll be the same sort of thing. You'll fill out the form, there's questions there, tell us what you want, what you're interested in doing, how many people, what time you think you're going. And then we just pass it on to one of my experts.

four at this point in time just now. It's always sort of going up and down, but four destination experts in the Columbia who can help you do all the planning, everything from flights to hotels to everything you could possibly need to know here. So it's more or less how it is. The only other thing that we have now, we've started a new branch which is called Incentive Travel Columbia. That's for obviously incentive trips, but also for mice in general, meetings.

Congresses, events, know, the corporate market. We've discovered that what we do now is sort of leaning into that as well. So when people need those team building experiences, we can provide that experience and Katahina or where it may be and then take them away on a three or four days into the wilderness sort of thing where they can see the Kapibaras and alligators and wild horses, wild deer and foxes and everything.

Jason Elkins (54:06.36)
Mm-hmm.

Bruce McLean (54:26.774)
just a combination. It's just an ever-growing, ever-evolving business. It's wonderful.

Jason Elkins (54:32.014)
All right. Very, cool. We've discussed a lot of things. I I'll be honest, I probably spoke more than I normally do because I'm so excited about Columbia as well and I want to share my stories. So thank you for for going back and forth with me on that. It's it's such an easy place to to discuss and and share. thank you for that. Bruce, is there anything I forgot to ask, should have asked or anything else you want to make sure that our listeners know about either you, your business, Columbia before we wrap up?

Bruce McLean (55:01.57)
I think so. Just check out the website. You'll find everything you need to know. We've got a great blog there. It's a great resource as well. I think we've got like 300 articles on there. A lot on almost anything you could want to know, whether it be on national parks or NGOs or different foods, different music, indigenous groups. If you're looking for information on Colombia, check out the blog. If it's not there, we know. We have the answers.

Jason Elkins (55:26.914)
That's great.

And so what I just heard is even if you're not somebody that's going to use, you know, a tour operator like yourself, it sounds like it's still a great resource of information. And yeah, yeah. So it's not. Yep.

Bruce McLean (55:40.222)
Absolutely. It's what it's there for. It's my goal isn't just to sell and to make money for my business. My goal is to share Columbia with the world. The more people who know about Columbia, the more people will come. The more people will love it. And hopefully, the more the rest of the world will become like Columbia. Hopefully, that will be great.

Jason Elkins (55:51.586)
Very good.

Jason Elkins (56:01.262)
I love that. That's mic drop. Great, great, great place to great place to wrap it up, Bruce. Thank you so much. I appreciate you so much. I'm happy that we bumped into each other a few weeks ago and had an opportunity to have this conversation. look forward to collaborating on spreading the word on Columbia with you on future projects. So Bruce, thank you so much for joining me.

Bruce McLean (56:21.332)
Excellent. You're welcome, Jason. Great to be here.