Adventure Travel with Eric Sheets - Latin Excursions

Eric Sheets
Founder / Director
Latin Excursions

In Spring 2004, then a corporate-world warrior, I decided to bring some colleagues to the Galapagos Islands for an adventure in Darwin’s archipelago. My Ecuadorian mother instilled in me a deep love and appreciation for the islands, so this adventure to the Galapagos was a chance to share my insider knowledge with fellow travellers. The success of that first trip left me yearning for more … and I set out on a path combining insider knowledge of places with the transformative power of travel. Latin Excursions was born. 15+ years later, we continue to have fun sharing our connections and insider knowledge of Latin America.

summary
In this episode of the Big World Made Small podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Eric Sheets, founder of Latin Excursions. They discuss Eric's unique upbringing, which involved living in various countries, and how these experiences shaped his passion for travel. Eric shares his transition from a banking career to the travel industry, the founding of Latin Excursions, and the importance of personal connections in travel. They also touch on family travel, the logistics of the travel industry, and the role of travel agents. Eric emphasizes the need for aspiring travel professionals to understand the realities of the industry and the importance of building relationships with clients.

takeaways

• He transitioned from banking to travel after realizing his passion for adventure.
• Eric emphasizes the importance of personal connections in the travel industry.
• Traveling with children can enhance their understanding of the world.
• He encourages parents to take their children on adventures.
• The travel industry is not as glamorous as it seems; it requires hard work.
• Logistics play a crucial role in successful travel planning.
• Travel agents should view specialists as partners, not competitors.
• Eric believes in the value of personalized travel experiences.
• He highlights the importance of being adaptable in the travel industry.

Learn more about Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Marketing and join our private community to get episode updates, special access to our guests, and exclusive adventure travel offers on our website.

Transcript

Jason Elkins (00:01.177)
Welcome back everybody to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the adventure traveler. Today we've got Eric here, Eric Sheets. He is the founder and director of Latin Excursions among some other things that we may get into as well. But Eric, welcome to the show. So happy to have you.

Eric Sheets (00:19.3)
Glad to be here. Look forward to talking with you.

Jason Elkins (00:21.029)
Yeah, this will be fun. You and I had a brief conversation earlier and I know you've got a lot of stories to tell and I remember in that conversation I said, don't tell me now, don't tell me now, wait till we hit the record button. So, and as a listener is probably already know and as I was just mentioning to you, who knows where the conversation is going to go, but I trust it's going to be a lot of fun.

Eric Sheets (00:42.51)
You too.

Jason Elkins (00:43.277)
Let's start with, you know, I think that, well, first of all, where are you calling from? Where are you physically located?

Eric Sheets (00:50.744)
I'm physically located in the Triangle Research Area of Raleigh, North Carolina.

Jason Elkins (00:57.061)
Okay, that's different than the last time we spoke.

Eric Sheets (01:00.384)
Okay, well, last time I spoke, think I might have been in Florida, this is where family and ideas come out of.

Jason Elkins (01:05.528)
Okay, yeah.

Jason Elkins (01:09.475)
All right, very cool. you're at home. That's where you live. All right, very, cool. So let's figure out how you got, cause there's a lot of things to discuss, but let's go back to the beginning as far back as you think we need to go. I don't know if that's early childhood or what, but kind of what's the, let's go back as far as you think you need to go. And I might push you to go a little further if we need.

Eric Sheets (01:12.888)
Yeah, that's right, that's where home is.

Eric Sheets (01:25.86)
Sure.

Eric Sheets (01:30.83)
Sure. Well, first of all, my parents met in an elevator at Citibank, New York. So that's the first oddity. My father was a self-described cowboy from Illinois and my mother was an Andean coastal lady from Ecuador. And they were both working in the bank and they met in the elevator. And that's where my parents always say, always have your elevator speech ready. You never know who you're going to meet.

Jason Elkins (01:55.205)
Ooh, that's a good example. Good reason to do that. Yeah, absolutely.

Eric Sheets (02:00.862)
And a year later, they sent my father to a very remote area of Brazil. Now it's more famous, but to open a bank there. this is Salvador, is the New Orleans of Brazil. So that seed was deposited in me with all the rhythms and music and colors of the region.

Jason Elkins (02:17.871)
Okay.

Eric Sheets (02:27.126)
If people don't know, that's where samba comes from. A lot of the cultural music, music influence comes from that region, Salvador, Dubai. So from there, we moved around the region, Panama, Costa Rica, Ecuador, and then DC and then Virginia and back and forth a couple times with Latin America.

Jason Elkins (02:46.885)
So you were born in Brazil.

Eric Sheets (02:49.794)
I was born in Brazil.

Jason Elkins (02:51.077)
Okay, how long were you there before you guys moved on to the next place?

Eric Sheets (02:55.276)
I was a little kid, three years old. No, been back but that's it then.

Jason Elkins (02:58.405)
Okay, so you probably don't remember too much of that. All right, very, very cool. So what's the first memory that you have of living in one of these places?

Eric Sheets (03:10.116)
I would say my first memory actually was in Panama. For those that don't know Panama City, it's warm and in the afternoon you look forward to those warm breezes that come off the ocean there. And I still remember a piñata flying with those breezes and me trying to hit the piñata instead of, of course, I hit a kid.

Jason Elkins (03:36.741)
You were blindfolded, take it, or was this an intentional thing?

Eric Sheets (03:41.032)
I don't know, they blindfolded me and it was a kid that was yapping too much. guess it came out of my unconscious.

Jason Elkins (03:50.533)
Do remember, was this a kid you already knew and didn't care for, or was this just?

Eric Sheets (03:55.264)
Yeah, no, I was social but not too social back then. But I was looking for the candies. But that was my first memory, know, hitting a kid with a pole instead of a piñata.

Jason Elkins (04:02.387)
huh, yep, absolutely.

Jason Elkins (04:08.389)
All right, very, very cool. And how long were you in Panama? I mean, were you there for a while before you moved on or?

Eric Sheets (04:12.58)
We were there for a couple years and then we moved on to Costa Rica and again, always with my parents. My father was an avid bird watcher. And for those that know something about birds, Panama is probably the most, is where you can get the most bird count in the territory. And then comes Columbia and then Ecuador. So we were always going in that region following him. I actually have a story of

having been in the back of a bug you know one of these small bugs in in costa rica near the panamanian border and supposedly i was one of the first ones to identify the quetzal which is which is the national bird of guatemala so it's a beautiful bird

Jason Elkins (04:55.339)
very cool. You said a bug. we talking like those little Volkswagen bugs or? No. All right, very cool. And how many do you have siblings?

Eric Sheets (04:59.618)
That's right. That's right. That's right. I have one brother who was born actually in Panama.

Jason Elkins (05:08.429)
Okay, so he's younger. Is he, maybe we're jumping ahead here a little bit, but was he as inspired in the adventure tourism space as you are? What's he doing?

Eric Sheets (05:19.524)
No, he actually stuck with Citibank. You know, he followed my parents' footsteps. And I actually did before starting Latin Excursions. I was an exciting auditor in Citibank. I say that because travel is definitely a lot more exciting. That's the main reason I switched. And I'm being facetious there. But I...

Jason Elkins (05:34.593)
Exciting, I heard you say exciting auditor.

Eric Sheets (05:48.734)
I basically, after a couple of years, I decided to take a couple of my colleagues at the bank on a trip to the Galapagos. And then I realized, you know, this is a lot more exciting than going into a bank and pretend that you're liked as an auditor.

Jason Elkins (06:06.533)
Yeah, probably not a good way to make friends with your colleagues and coworkers. So when you were younger, obviously you lived in some different places that many might consider exotic. you know, it's maybe not the typical childhood of somebody that ends up working in a bank. And as you're growing up, like when you're teenager, did you want to go into banking? Was it, you just felt like that was going to happen or?

Eric Sheets (06:11.982)
That's right. That's right.

Jason Elkins (06:36.473)
Did you feel pressure? I'm just curious how you got into banking, I guess.

Eric Sheets (06:39.428)
Good question. The reason I got into, I didn't get into banking right after college. I went to school in Charlottesville, Virginia and studied economics and English. I graduated right during the 1990 when we were in the midst of the recession and there were not too many options back then. I traveled, I went back and traveled the region for a couple of six months, mostly Brazil actually.

tracing back my footsteps. And that's where I relearned, well, not relearned, but that's where I mastered Portuguese, you could say the language. And then eventually I came back to the Washington DC area, got into American Express Travel. Back then there were still traveler checks and I was one of the guys that would get called at 3 a.m. the night shift and arrange it to get you a travel check in the middle of nowhere somewhere in the world.

That was my introduction into travel logistics. And then eventually that led into me getting into a job with Citibank. And I was transferred to Latin America to work with Citibank in the small country of Ecuador. And then, go ahead.

Jason Elkins (07:54.085)
Yep. I'm curious. I was going to ask you before I forget to ask this. So your parents, they, you know, when your dad first got that job to go to Brazil, was he, was that something he requested? He wanted? just, I mean, was it like, did he have the desire to go live in these types of places or was it just part of his career progression or what was that all about?

Eric Sheets (08:19.284)
my father hated winter and he came from the, rock God and Davenport, border in Illinois. And, and he said, you know, there's a lot more interesting birds in Brazil than there are in there. Where he's from. So, so, yeah, yeah. So he ended up in these weird places with, with a wonderful woman and my mom and, the rest is his history. And that's, that's how, that's what made up my story.

Jason Elkins (08:32.197)
All right. Okay. I thought that might be the case. All right.

Jason Elkins (08:46.021)
Right, right. And when you left, when you got out of college and you went down for a while, spent, I think you said six months in Brazil, did you, what was, were there any big life changes, any big like ah-has or epiphanies or that came out of that?

Eric Sheets (09:01.188)
There was, there was. Basically for one month of those six months, I traveled through the beach areas of Bahia, which is the state or province where Salvador is. And I wanted to prove myself, you know, how long can I actually live without having cash, know, liquid currency? So I basically exchanged, I basically, you know,

I washed dishes or became a server at some restaurants, but I was able to live without cash pretty much for about 31 days. So it proves to my point that you can actually barter yourself without necessarily having cash.

Jason Elkins (09:45.701)
I'm curious at any point during maybe you don't want to share this but I've seen travelers that sometimes end up in places thinking I can I can make it here I don't have any money but I can make it here and then at some point they're asking for the kindness of strangers to help them get the bus ticket or you know ticket on a metro or something so you made it 31 days without just direct hey I'm a traveler and I'm stuck and I need some cash

Eric Sheets (10:12.066)
Yeah, no, I just met some people and they say, you want to work here and you can stay here and I'll feed you that type of thing. So it was like, think four or five places and work. So it was an interesting challenge I did to myself.

Jason Elkins (10:22.757)
Alright.

So.

Jason Elkins (10:29.261)
Yeah, would you do it again?

Eric Sheets (10:32.164)
At this age, I don't think so. I definitely know my wife wouldn't, so she wouldn't come along.

Jason Elkins (10:37.893)
You're on your own buddy, so I'm curious after after 31 days of just kind of I think they have they call it couch surfing now right After 31 days of couch surfing did you like were you happy to have that little challenge behind you? And then what did you do to what did you do to finance yourself the rest of them for the rest?

Eric Sheets (10:48.46)
Right,

Eric Sheets (10:55.565)
I was.

I was, I was, I was, I tapped into some savings that I didn't really bring along. It was sent to me and, and I was able to afford a hostel with a a good shower. But the.

Jason Elkins (11:06.191)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (11:10.597)
Very very very cool. That's a that's a good experience to have so alright, so fast forward back you go to American Express I remember those commercials on TV talking about American Express They chose some couple lost their stand at the middle of the night and getting the cashier's check sent to him or something like that. So But anyway after so you went to Citibank and then Citibank transfer you took a transfer with them to go where?

Eric Sheets (11:15.394)
Yeah.

Eric Sheets (11:30.532)
Right?

Eric Sheets (11:36.782)
to Ecuador and right. And my mother was from Ecuador. and she was, she had a place down there. So my parents were also living in Ecuador for, my father was working on some projects. So went down there and worked with Citibank and back then it wasn't really audit, but it was a credit and small business financing. But eventually that led to

Jason Elkins (11:38.221)
That's right.

Eric Sheets (12:06.35)
to me being sent to Florida to work as an auditor, risk manager for the Latin American region.

Jason Elkins (12:12.677)
Were you disappointed to leave Ecuador? I'm sure that's a promotion of some sort. was it, did you want to go back to the States?

Eric Sheets (12:20.556)
I was there for a couple of years and basically the country, I learned everything I could learn and I was looking for a new opportunity and that seemed like a good opportunity. But I learned after a year and a half of doing audit, it's not the most exciting career and that eventually pushed me to get into.

travel. And that's how I founded Latin Excursions after taking some of my colleagues on to Galapagos. And the niche was basically matching the right guide and experience in the Galapagos with the right boat or land-based experience. I developed that, you could say that magnifying glass of trying to match the right experience with the right traveler.

And that's how Latin Espirigion was born. All services are private or customized and personalized around what the traveler likes to do. And I collected these experiences, especially since I had traveled the region. And first with the Galapagos, then mainland Ecuador, and eventually clients asked me, hey, could you do this in Machu Picchu or the Amazon? And little by little.

did I expand through the region. eventually I caught the eyes of Travel and Leisure and they put me on the map as a leading specialist in the region for this niche. So that's how business took off.

Jason Elkins (13:54.639)
Very cool.

Jason Elkins (13:58.415)
Do you feel like your background kind of in the banking? Honestly, as I listened to you say that, I expected you to say, I figured out an algorithm for matching the right client with the right experience. so I think that's where the question is. It's like, do you feel like your banking, your analytical skills, maybe how you process information came in really handy in that, or is it a totally different skill set that you use now?

Eric Sheets (14:25.688)
I would say it's totally different. I think that people seek my services because they can't, couldn't really find what they were looking for online or they got bombarded with too much information. So finding the right truffles or gems in the region and matching the right guide or experience with the right traveler is, in my opinion, what I love to do and that passion for the region.

and finding what people really love to do and matching that, I think is what makes a happy client. And most of our clients, of course, come back to us and ask for a new experience.

Jason Elkins (15:09.669)
How long after you took your friends to the Galapagos was it before you turned in your resignation letter at the bank?

Eric Sheets (15:16.728)
I basically it was about two weeks later. We came back from the trip and I said, you know, this is not for me and I'm going to take my little savings and try to form a, you know, a company. I legalized it and, and, you know, I, it started out of my bedroom in, in, in South Florida actually. And, that leads to, that leads to an interesting story as well, because,

Jason Elkins (15:38.821)
Okay.

Eric Sheets (15:44.898)
While I was at work, I was introduced to my wife and it turned out that she lived in the same building and had gone to the same high school when I was in Ecuador. she was the, we basically developed a business plan together and developed this business together and she's from Ecuador as well.

Jason Elkins (15:55.173)
Jason Elkins (16:04.229)
Okay, that's essentially because my very next question was going to be when you resigned from your job, were you married? Were you in a relationship? And how did that go over? Because I'm just imagining, yep, you're a banker or a Citibank. You've got a lot of responsibility, probably the money that goes along with that. And you're just going to quit it all to be a tour operator. But when you said she's from Ecuador, I'm like, okay, that's probably helped because if she was from

Eric Sheets (16:26.136)
That's right.

Eric Sheets (16:31.268)
Right.

Jason Elkins (16:33.687)
If she was from West Hollywood or something, she might not have gone for it. But all right. So, yeah.

Eric Sheets (16:35.362)
Butan or something.

Eric Sheets (16:39.598)
That's right. Yeah, we started our business and our marriage with very little funds. It was all based on a dream and pursuing the dream. And I think that's advice I always give to people, follow your dream and sacrifice the most you can to make it happen.

Jason Elkins (17:00.793)
very cool. It sounds like you found a good business partner for life partner. Because there's, you know, it's hard for a lot of people to imagine, you know, when they're at the place where they're like, okay, I think I want to get married and I want to marry a guy who's getting ready to his job at the bank.

Eric Sheets (17:06.755)
Yeah.

Eric Sheets (17:16.886)
Right. I always tell people, it's nice, but I must say, we had babies and she was like the accountant or bookkeeper of the company. And eventually I realized, this is too much working with my wife 24 seven. So I actually fired her twice in the history of the company. So I always tell people.

Jason Elkins (17:38.593)
Okay. Well, you say you fired her twice. I suspect she fired you twice. It just made you let, helped you like feel like it was your choice. But yeah, it's, I worked, I worked with a, ex-wife managing a scuba diving and fly fishing resort off the coast of Belize for a while. And yeah, it can be real challenge when that's your 24 seven thing with

Eric Sheets (17:46.5)
That's right. That's the honest truth.

Jason Elkins (18:06.689)
each other so I appreciate that. So I just shared that it didn't work for me, I'm divorced. You're still with your wife?

Eric Sheets (18:08.196)
definitely.

Eric Sheets (18:16.196)
Yes, we're still married going on 21 years and

Jason Elkins (18:19.045)
I went out of live when I asked that I was looking at your face. I was like, I hope So is she is she working for you now or still not it's not for you with you I should say

Eric Sheets (18:25.804)
No, no, no, no, I thought I didn't hear the correct question, but I guess I guessed it.

Eric Sheets (18:35.862)
No, we just, yeah, she, you could say she's the chief idea officer or inspiration that keeps this thing going. however, we have three daughters and they all have logistics and we've decided that it's just better for her and to have her focused on the kids. And it's just a sacrifice we make instead of the kids coming home and.

not having us at home and things like that.

Jason Elkins (19:06.565)
No, no, yeah, I think that's great if it works. Yeah. And how old are your kids?

Eric Sheets (19:12.868)
There are 12, 16 and 18. So we got some college-bound ones.

Jason Elkins (19:16.069)
Okay. Yes. And I'm curious. Well, first, I guess I want to know, have you guys had the opportunity to travel with them very much?

Eric Sheets (19:27.064)
We have. I'm a big believer that you should take, the children should follow you on your adventures, not the other way around. So I took my first daughter when she was five months old to Rio and the outskirts of Rio and got on the boat because I was inspecting some places in Brazil because that's how I collect these truffles you could say.

Jason Elkins (19:52.89)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (19:53.116)
and met some guides and so she was like the chief inspector. I always call her at five months old. I would her down her bag and went everywhere with her.

Jason Elkins (20:02.757)
Well, and traveling with a child can make you probably more aware of your surroundings and probably a little bit of a pressure test for the people you're inspecting. Because it's one thing when you just show up by yourself with your little carry-on bag, it's like, it's kind of easy for them to show you a good time. makes it when you've got an info with you, pressure tests it for sure. So, and.

Eric Sheets (20:13.644)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Sheets (20:20.268)
Right. Right.

Right. Right. And of course, I was with my wife and we've we've traveled through the regions, all these countries we work with, with the children. they, they've, we've spoiled them a little because some of these places have been very, very, very posh. But most of the time they've been able to meet very interesting people and hear some great stories. Experience something.

Jason Elkins (20:40.122)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (20:46.607)
Do you think that out of the three, I mean, they're old enough now that you can probably get an idea. Like, do they enjoy it? Because like, I've got a teenage son who talks a lot about he wants to travel. And then I take him to some places and he maybe doesn't enjoy it so much. And then a few months later, he's like, dad, wasn't it great when we went? I remember you weren't enjoying it that much. So I'm curious about your kids. Do you feel like they all enjoy it? Is that something that they will continue to do, do you think?

Eric Sheets (21:14.498)
I think so. think you deposit the wonderlust seed in them early on. It's going to happen no matter if you like it or not. I think it's almost natural. you take them outside their comfort zone and push them, that's not only a great skill set to have in order to be a risk taker and do things that sometimes you're not comfortable doing, but also just the ease of sitting down when someone's completely different with you and...

and being able to communicate, right? Which I think is something that people that haven't traveled outside their comfort zone can't really develop, you could say.

Jason Elkins (21:54.031)
Right now, absolutely. Do you, I mean, I don't know what your parent, you just shared some of your parenting philosophies with me, but I'm curious, do you see or would you encourage your kids to go into the tourism business later on in life?

Eric Sheets (22:08.9)
I think one of them wants to become a marine biologist because of the numerous times she's swam with turtles and dolphins in the Galapagos. The other one wants to help the disadvantaged people in the world through medicine, probably outside of our borders. And the other one, believe it not, either wants to become a lawyer and a flamenco dancer. So that's an interesting mix. So let's see.

Jason Elkins (22:34.597)
Why not? Yeah, yeah, that's might, might change a few times, but regardless, whatever. mean, it's, I can, I can see in all three of those things, I could see the influence that they've received in there. Just, you know, growing up with you, but also, also through.

Eric Sheets (22:38.756)
That's a 12 year old, I'm not sure if she...

Eric Sheets (22:45.848)
That's right.

Jason Elkins (22:57.593)
Yeah, that's very, very cool.

Eric Sheets (22:57.86)
It's fortunate definitely to, if your parents are in the travel industry, it's fortunate to have those type of parents if you can travel with them for sure.

Jason Elkins (23:08.355)
It is, I've interviewed quite a few folks here on the show that were born into a tour guide family or a tour operator family. And it's just a disproportionate number of my guests. And I can see why. I kind of, I had some similarities in my childhood that definitely, would spend my summers traveling with my dad and had been out of the country several times. it leaves a mark.

Eric Sheets (23:24.088)
Yeah, definitely.

Jason Elkins (23:37.845)
And is there anything, so if somebody is listening to this that has teenage children that are talking like they want to maybe go into tourism, is there anything you would share with, think, I had no plan for this question when I started it. I think what I'm getting at is like, what's the downside or what's the cautionary notes that you might give somebody that's thinking about going into tourism if they're already.

Eric Sheets (24:08.292)
Well, first of all, I know this talking to millennials and the young people that increasingly many people are wanting to get into this business. You remember the days when they said people were predicting the death of this business because of the internet, but people are actually realizing, wow, this is an exciting career to choose of being able to see the world and translate that world to your clients.

I think that one thing I would caution is that many times I've been in the countries, you know, while I'm on inspections, working, you know, in the wee hours, putting together proposals. And so it's not as glamorous as it sounds. If you're, if you're small, you know, you're going to, you're going to have to do a lot of things while you're overseas. So it just doesn't, it just can't replace that or find a replacement.

Eventually as you grow, I'm sure you can have a team back home that you can delegate to. But most people start as a one man show, one woman show, and that would be my only cautionary tale. But it's a wonderful, wonderful industry to pursue, and think you're seeing that more and more people are entering it, I've noticed.

Jason Elkins (25:28.837)
So what I heard you say was, it's not as glamorous, it's not always as glamorous as it looks. And sometimes you're putting in long hours because you have people traveling on weekends and evenings and unfortunately things come up and now we're in a WhatsApp world or a instant communication world. And also, you know, the thing that came up too is I hear a lot of people like, I want to go into the travel business because I love to travel.

I want to go see things. I want to go do all these things. But a huge part of working in the travel business is we're in the people business as well, because unless you're just going to go travel and maybe write blog posts or something, we're dealing with people. Most of the people that I would interview on the show or most tour operators are dealing with people. And I think I've had a few conversations and I know from my personal experience.

A young person might decide I want to work in the travel business because they think they're going to get to go see all these places, but they don't realize they're going to have to actually work with people. So I'm curious, just kind of like, I'd like to go into that a little bit about what are the things that people should understand about dealing with people, I guess.

Eric Sheets (26:47.106)
Not all people are alike. And when you're in the travel industry, as the more you charge, the more expectations there are about a trip. people will complain if you're not doing things right. And things happen, stuff happens, so you have to be ready for that. it's definitely not as glamorous. Don't get into it if it's just for the travel. Do what I did for six months in Brazil and, you know.

I've already way through, as a business, there's a lot of logistics that you have to take care of and you can't just outsource everything.

Jason Elkins (27:28.025)
kind of the analogy I think of, I worked in real estate for a while, doing residence, it was horrible for me. But you know, at the time it was, it felt like a necessity. And people would oftentimes say, I want to be a real estate agent because I love houses. It's not about the houses. You know, I, I was able to do it because I liked people. I honestly couldn't care about the houses. I've been traveling full time for three years.

Eric Sheets (27:36.174)
Great.

Jason Elkins (27:56.665)
The values of home ownership are totally lost on me. But it's about the people. And it's kind of the same thing with tourism. If you go into tourism because you like the travel, it depends on how you define travel. For me, I define travel as connecting with human beings. But if it's just about I want to go see Machu Picchu, or I want to go see the Leaning Tower, or I want to go see Borneo for some reason, but I don't care about the people, it's going to be a real, real challenge.

Eric Sheets (28:11.012)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (28:23.973)
And I'm curious, like if someone think that they want to go into tourism, are there types of jobs or ways that people can kind of try out or maybe work on their people skills? So maybe I'm thinking like jobs that translate well into working in tourism or advice you would give to somebody.

Eric Sheets (28:40.898)
I sure, think being a trip leader, either on a boat or, or, you know, for some big tour operator company would be an excellent introduction because you're, you learn how to lead people, all different types of peoples and personalities. And, and you're seeing you're responsible for logistics and you're going to get an excellent introduction on you. could say, how, how to form it. If you want to get into this, you'll have some, some great experience. So.

I think being a trip leader would be awesome. I admire very much became a kayak instructor in Peru. And that's how he got into this business. It just grew from there. So he was leading groups of people that wanted to kayak in Peru. So leading groups, just like Aleda Group in the Galapagos, is an excellent introduction.

Jason Elkins (29:34.874)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (29:40.719)
So help for the listeners and I'm curious as well from your perspective. There's trip leaders and then there's the guides and I oftentimes think, well, maybe it's easier to get a job as a guide where you have two or three people, you know, and you're maybe just doing day trips to just kind of get used to, cause you know, that might be good stepping stone in trip leader. When you say trip leader, what does that mean to you? And what should our listeners understand about what a trip leader does?

Eric Sheets (29:48.676)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (30:08.494)
Sure, the trip leader is usually kind of like the person responsible for, mean, many times they're traveling in a different destination with the group, right? And they have guides in each different destination that specializes in that destination. Sometimes some of these trip leaders are actually the guide on some of these small group journeys with a company like Aber, Calming Kent, or Butterfield Robinson. think that would be a good example.

But yeah, either a guide or a trip leader would be an excellent way to learn how this business works and get an idea of this is really for you as a career. I think that's excellent idea.

Jason Elkins (30:48.783)
What's a career that comes to mind or a job that comes to mind that is the closest maybe to being a guide or being a trip leader, but it's outside of the tourism industry? for example, someone that has worked as a X, Y, or Z would already have be halfway there. Or what jobs transfer well into being a guide or trip leader? Anything come to mind?

Eric Sheets (31:14.66)
I think anybody that's involved with logistics, let's say getting a package to Warsaw or even people in the shipping industry, anything that involves organizing logistics is an excellent skill set that would, think, translate really well into organizing trips or managing trips, right?

Jason Elkins (31:31.757)
Hmm. OK.

Jason Elkins (31:39.717)
That's interesting. like your take and your angle is heavy on the logistics because it's such an important part. And if you handle in the logistics correctly, hopefully you have other guides and the people you need in the places and at the right times. And maybe it's a little bit of a difference in your and I's personality styles. I'm more like, be a server in a restaurant or on the

the people side of it, the, you know, maybe school teachers or whatever that can manage all the interpersonal dynamics and relationships. And what I like about you is you have that skillset that I wish I had sometimes logistics were not my strong suit. but I was just always like, we'll figure it out as we go. So I can see why I can see why your clients appreciate it.

Eric Sheets (32:28.28)
Heh heh.

Eric Sheets (32:32.376)
Well, you know, these are private trips and each one tends to be somewhat different. their logistics is important. You can see.

Jason Elkins (32:42.841)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Now, are you guys, are you doing many group trips or more of the kind of the private FIT departures for your clients?

Eric Sheets (32:54.244)
Mostly private FIT departures, ranging from couples to families and even multi-gen families. We've done a couple of, you could say, incentive travel or corporate boards that wanted to do something different. Let's say having a corporate board in the middle of the Amazon, a boat, for example, or in the Galapagos, but mostly FITs.

Jason Elkins (33:18.731)
you who knows who's going to be listening to this but I'm curious do you like the larger groups the kind of the incentive travel type stuff I mean there's a lot of logistics and people involved sometimes do you enjoy that part of it

Eric Sheets (33:34.276)
I do. mean, I think that bringing a group that is the sole focus is to achieve a camaraderie of that company or that board and being in and let's say they have their meetings in the mornings and the afternoon, they do excursions and it really brings together that group. So I think it was a very interesting approach of using travel in, you could say corporate America, right? Or for bonding.

Jason Elkins (34:00.569)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, there's. All right. Very cool. What part of the process do you get most excited about? What's the like? Because there's a lot of involved in the process. There's, you know, scouting, I think you said, looking for the truffles. There's putting itineraries, you know, product development, putting the product all together. The conversations with potential clients, the planning process once someone confirms till they get on the plane.

Eric Sheets (34:02.725)
I found it really, really interesting.

Jason Elkins (34:30.031)
to when they get home and you're reading their reviews. If you could only do one, what part of that process gets you the most excited where you maybe sometimes get so focused on it you couldn't care less if you had to do the rest of it?

Eric Sheets (34:43.822)
Sure. It's a familiarization call, the first call, because I always like to get on the call and find out what their passions are. And today Zoom is so prevalent, you could say, or ubiquitous, that people don't feel, like before it was kind of odd to have someone on video, right, before it was phone, but now I can see the reactions and see their excitement if I mention the place, or can see they're not so exciting. So I find it really,

personalized and exciting to hear people's dreams. there's some people actually get, half of the excitement of their trip for them is the planning process. when you get those, that makes it even more exciting.

Jason Elkins (35:28.301)
I personally have never understood that. don't, but it's weird because I enjoyed the planning process with clients for their trips. But then I'm like, when I go somewhere, I think I'll figure it out when I get there. So, but I also agree. I think that the video call thing is a really interesting thing that's, that's come up because, you know, there's still some operators out there that just like, I know people personally that are trip planners that like, I don't want to get about it.

Eric Sheets (35:37.156)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (35:42.433)
Right. Right.

Jason Elkins (35:57.381)
video call, I just want to do it by email back and forth. And I can't get my head around that because as we know, like the written word is only like 7 % of communication. And it's really hard to tell if someone, I like what you said, you said, I can see if they're excited. Cause this is an emotional thing. This is not a just strictly business transaction. This is an emotional thing. And if you're having conversation with them, trying to helping them envision what it's going to be like to take their kids to the Amazon.

or whatever, there's a lot of emotion around that. And I suspect like you can maybe have three ideas for them and you share the three ideas. You can, even if they don't say a single word, you can probably pick up on what one is the right fit just based on the look on their face, right?

Eric Sheets (36:40.548)
Correct.

Eric Sheets (36:44.228)
That's totally right. And I think the people that don't need to get on the video call would probably be people that are reselling packages that don't have any customization. But right, right. But I'm actually looking forward to the feedback call to see what they like the most and hearing. if I was right on or for pushing the envelope a little and

Jason Elkins (36:46.714)
Yeah.

Jason Elkins (36:53.497)
Yeah, they're not emotionally attached to it. So doesn't matter.

Jason Elkins (37:05.178)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (37:11.0)
taking them to a place that they didn't really want to go initially and for specific reasons I did that. So I always look forward to the feedback call. That would be my second favorite part of the process.

Jason Elkins (37:20.901)
So what I, really it's the connection part. Even though you mentioned logistics, I know that's super important, but when I ask you what's the part you like the most, both of those are not really logistics. It's the connecting and almost the shared experience type of thing, which is, it's a value. I'm curious, so when you're direct, when you're working directly with a traveler or a guest, what percentage of them,

Eric Sheets (37:24.813)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Sheets (37:33.42)
No, it's connecting with people.

Jason Elkins (37:49.945)
will you get on a video call with roughly? Is this almost everybody or?

Eric Sheets (37:53.188)
I would say almost 80 % would be because we have a combination of people that travel, we have a direct relationship with, and we also, because of our expertise in the region, generalist travel agents confide their kinds with us so we can design that trip. In that case, there's less of the video communication because not our client, but we definitely try to get as much information early on.

Yeah, I would say 80 % of our direct clients.

Jason Elkins (38:29.253)
So the other 20 % are they just, you just get a lot of resistance around that or, and I think this is an interesting conversation. I think there's other tour operators that listen to the show and potential travelers. Maybe there's people listening to the show that book a trip a year. And the last time they booked a trip, someone suggested they get on a video call and they thought it was silly. So they didn't do it. So that's why we're having this conversation. So the 20 % that you don't get on a video call with, what's the biggest objection there? Do you think?

Eric Sheets (38:38.478)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (38:57.988)
I guess it would be because either we, we, they're pass finds. they're, doing a repeat, what they call repeat. So, and if I, I connected with them, they usually say, yeah, yeah, let's get another call to connect. Right. But, and there's always some people that just, on the go and they don't want to get on, on video or we call, we call them and I caught, them off guard type of thing. That would be the 20 % would say.

Jason Elkins (39:25.539)
Yeah, okay, I was guessing.

Eric Sheets (39:27.542)
It's something worth pressing, there's something definitely worth doing if you can afford the time. Now everybody has can spend, you know, half an hour, 40 minutes with someone. But what I can tell you is that when you talk or connect with them by video or talk on their phone, your chances of them converting or becoming a client are go from like 10 % to 80%. There's some statistics out there. So.

Jason Elkins (39:52.249)
Yeah, yeah, I believe that. And I suspect that's probably one of the objections that people have. The people that don't want to get on video call is they intuitively know that.

Eric Sheets (40:06.788)
They're just scoping out, right?

Jason Elkins (40:08.773)
They're gonna make a mistake and they're gonna agree to something that they weren't really ready to agree to or or whatever that's the story because Fortunately, we're dealing with something that's and life-changing and really cool stuff But you know in the past when they've had people say let's jump on a call They're like they're gonna get pitched insurance. They're gonna get pitched real estate. They're gonna you know, all these things So I think there's a knee-jerk reaction to wait

Eric Sheets (40:12.9)
Alright.

Jason Elkins (40:36.429)
Every time I go face to face with somebody, I end up committing to something. So I think there's, I think there's, there's something to be said for that. But also, well, you mentioned that maybe they feel like they don't have a lot of time for it, but I would probably make the case that we can probably do this faster, get a lot more accomplished in a half hour video call. Then we could get.

accomplished over five days of back and forth emails, even a phone call sometimes. You can make more progress on a video call.

Eric Sheets (41:06.894)
That's correct.

Eric Sheets (41:12.73)
definitely. No, no, there's no doubt about it. mean, when I we've never we haven't had one phone connection with the with what we call the lead or someone that we don't know from the past. Almost surely it's not going to it's not going to become a trip if it's all by email. There's not that human connection, you can say that made you get confidence because people are trusting their most valuable resource, which is their vacation time to sometimes a stranger. So

If they can meet that person, that's important.

Jason Elkins (41:45.165)
And if you had to guess, and maybe you don't have to guess, maybe you've already figured this out, but if you were to keep track of, this client we did a phone, a phone or video call with, and this other client, client A, we did the phone chat, client B was all by email. And then if you were to forecast out into the future when they write their review at the end of the trip, do you think there's a pretty clear connection between who's going to write the better review? Meaning,

Not meaning who wrote the better review, but who had a better experience.

Eric Sheets (42:18.968)
definitely, definitely. They're going to be a lot more open and communicative, no doubt.

Jason Elkins (42:20.101)
Yeah, right. Well, they're going to be open more community. Yes, but also like, I guess what I'm saying is the chance of them having a good experience that they would write a good review about is much higher. Like if you were to just go on to TripAdvisor and you see, we just got a new review and it was a bad review. And before I let you look at the name, before I let you read the review,

Eric Sheets (42:35.545)
That's right.

Jason Elkins (42:46.885)
Would you audit, would you think, know what, it's probably one of those people that we spoke with recently that we can get on a phone call with us. It's like your, your gut just tells you, man. And you're probably in hindsight, you'd look at it. I'm not saying you have any bad reviews, but I'm saying you'd look at that better view and think, man, I knew I should have pushed him to get on a call. I knew I should have, you know, he kept saying, I'm too busy for call. And if I had just said, you know what, bill look, give me 10 minutes. This is really, really important.

Eric Sheets (42:53.4)
That's right. That's right.

Eric Sheets (43:06.392)
That's right.

Jason Elkins (43:16.495)
Let's get on a call that I probably could have avoided that whole bad review and the bad experience. just, I don't know. Seems like the world, that's the way the world works. So if you're listening to this and you're working with a tour operator and they suggest you get on a video call, don't worry about your hair. They don't care about your hair. They don't care about whether you've shaved. They don't care what your backdrop looks like, if you've got a bed in the background or whatever. And they're not trying to make a hard pitch or a hard sell. They're trying to make sure that.

Eric Sheets (43:23.32)
Well said, well said. I agree.

Eric Sheets (43:33.102)
Please do.

Jason Elkins (43:46.437)
if you move forward with them that you have a good experience, right? So anyway, I mean, obviously I do a lot of calls and I'm on a video call with you right now. That's why we're able to have a good conversation and work through things. anyway, so that was a bunch of stuff there. Let's go back. So you do most of the FITs and you do some business with kind of as,

Eric Sheets (43:49.89)
That's right. That's right. 100%.

Eric Sheets (44:04.068)
Thanks, man.

Jason Elkins (44:16.367)
Travel agents, let's just put it that way. Other agents that I think you use the word confide their clients in you. I love that. That's great language in there. let's actually touch on that because I know that one thing with travel agents or outbound tour operators, maybe a tour operator in the US that wants to send a client to Columbia. So they've got maybe somebody in Columbia that's handling all the logistics, actually put together the itinerary. But then the person in the US is the one that

I don't like the word sold, but basically presented the itinerary and is collecting the money and doing the marketing. And oftentimes the travel agent is very reluctant to let the client speak directly with the tour operator, which I get it on some level, but also it can be interesting sometimes because the agent's like,

I want to have all the communication, all the communication, all the communication until the day that they arrive at the airport. And then your team can talk to them for a week and a half in person, sharing good memories, good experiences and doing fun stuff. So the travel agent is so worried about you creating a relationship with their client, but you're going to create a relationship with their client eventually if the, if the trip actually goes off and happens. So.

Eric Sheets (45:21.273)
Mm-hmm.

Jason Elkins (45:42.905)
What are your thoughts? If you were speaking to a travel agent right now, how do you feel about communication between someone like yourself and the end client?

Eric Sheets (45:56.1)
The way we propose it is that see us as let's say it's travel agency X, right? We see us as your your travel agency X Galapagos specialist that you can identify us on the call as a specialist that's gonna just Make you know, there are your people on the ground, but they're gonna also want to learn a little more about what you like and So we're not really competing

we're not trying to grab the client, we're trying to add value on the call. So that's how we present ourselves when we want to offer ourselves to the agent as a specialist. And that's why they're seeking us anyway, because we specialize in this region or in this place that they're going to. The agent is specialized on the client relationship and keeping them as clients and making sure they get amazing trips. what we do is we make,

Jason Elkins (46:43.545)
I love that.

Eric Sheets (46:51.629)
try to make the travel agent shine in front of their clients, you could say.

Jason Elkins (46:56.197)
I love that. I'm happy I asked that because you just, I love the way you said that. He, you know, like, let's say Eric, we're going to have Eric join the call. Eric is our Galapagos program manager, specialist, specialist. And you could almost show up on the Zoom call with, you know, you could put, like, let's say it's travel agent X, you could put Eric, travel agent X, you know, right on the Zoom call.

Eric Sheets (46:59.332)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Sheets (47:09.89)
Right, right.

Jason Elkins (47:22.757)
Because it's no different than if you have your driver pick someone up in airport, they're holding up a sign saying travel agent X. They might even be wearing a baseball cap or a T-shirt that says travel agent X. We call it white labeling, right? Where I'm working, I'm representing you. So that's a really cool way to end. What that does for the agent is it really allows them to open up their network. All of a they've got a team. It's not just them, right? It's not just them sitting in.

Eric Sheets (47:22.766)
Correct.

Eric Sheets (47:36.472)
Great.

Eric Sheets (47:48.376)
That's right. That's right.

Jason Elkins (47:51.801)
Dubuque, Iowa, doing this, they've got somebody that, I like that. That's a really cool approach.

Eric Sheets (47:52.984)
Exactly.

Yeah, and some of them are beginning to do it more frequently. Some of them never got the message and we respect which other way.

Jason Elkins (48:10.437)
Well, and a lot of probably just has to have personality, you know, some people are really I don't I hate the word I don't want to say control freaks. There's probably better. Yeah, they're protectionists. They're control freaks. But they got it at some point. It's like, look, your client is going to be with our partners and the Galapagos or Brazil for a week and a half, two weeks, having a really good time sharing stories around the dinner table drinking wine together.

Eric Sheets (48:13.624)
That's right.

protective of their clients or protective of their clients.

Jason Elkins (48:37.829)
So all this time and effort you're trying to put into protecting the client is I don't know if it's a total waste, but but you know, it's a mindset thing and we all get to do. Fortunately, we're all people get to do things however we want.

Eric Sheets (48:48.45)
Yeah, exactly.

Eric Sheets (48:53.102)
Yeah, that's right. That's a good question. It goes.

Jason Elkins (48:54.629)
whatever so we discussed a lot of things probably a lot of things that I would love to come back and have another conversation with you and also I'm just curious Eric at this point what have I forgotten that there's probably a lot of things what have I forgotten to ask you should have asked you or what do want to make sure that our listeners know about you

your business, maybe your other businesses, just to kind of help them get a well-rounded kind of picture before we wrap.

Eric Sheets (49:29.332)
yeah, I would just mention that, just using one destination as an example, the Galapagos, many people associate with a destination, that's that you need to only can only do by boat. and there's actually other options and ways to do it. I I'm, I'm a personal big believer that the best way to do Galapagos is, is do part of it by boat and part of it staying on the island. And there's big reasons for that. And, and.

And just like that, we do that in all the destinations. We work from Cuba all the way down to Antarctica. And so I just wanted to get that point out that that expertise really makes the right trip for the traveler. And we have a website called Galapagosjourneys.com, which specializes in, you could say, the stories that...

that you can get while in the Galapagos and it's a very interesting website. But no, you've touched on some very interesting points and I'm sure the listeners hopefully have been entertained by this hour of our conversation.

Jason Elkins (50:43.969)
I hope so. was my hope. My hope is that other people like me will find the conversations interesting as well. But I appreciate your insights. I think actually this would be a really good episode for travel agents to listen to some other tour operators and maybe people that aspire to get into business. I got an email from a guy today that's really wants to kind of get into the business. So as we're having this conversation, I'm like, I know I've got listeners out there that

Eric Sheets (50:51.515)
definitely, I'm sure.

Jason Elkins (51:13.849)
that would like to do that. that's why I wanted to go that direction. So I appreciate that. And also what I heard you say just now about the Galapagos is I think you invited our listeners to kind of set their preconceived ideas aside because you're absolutely right. Most people, if you go search online for Galapagos trips, you're going to see a lot of Galapagos cruises. You fly in, you get on a boat, you do the boat thing and the people selling the boat thing will tell you why that's.

the only way you can do it. But yeah, yeah. And I think that there's other ideas. I would almost, what I got from that almost is like, do some research, do enough research to feel comfortable that you're speaking with the right person, but don't plan out the trip and then call me. It's like, here's the trip I planned out is like, save yourself a little bit of time and effort. Do as much research as you need to do to figure out if you even want to go to Galapagos or Latin.

Eric Sheets (51:44.684)
Or the best way.

Jason Elkins (52:12.143)
then call someone like yourself and just come with an open, clean slate because I think that was a really good example.

Eric Sheets (52:21.028)
I'll probably save a lot of time and money doing that, by the way.

Jason Elkins (52:23.981)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, all right, well, we covered a lot. Let's come back and have another conversation at some point here in the near future. Eric, thanks for joining me on the show. I appreciate it.

Eric Sheets (52:34.979)
Love that.

Thank you, Jason. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.