Adventure Travel with Chris Prewitt - Chris Prewitt Surf

Guest Bio

Chris Prewitt is the owner and operator of Chris Prewitt Surf, bringing over 25 years of experience in luxury surfing experiences across yachts, resorts, and villas in tropical destinations worldwide. Specializing in bespoke surf coaching and guiding, Chris works with busy professionals, families, and solo travelers who seek private, discreet, and tailored surfing improvement holidays. His expertise lies in creating personalized programs that help clients quickly advance their surfing skills while enjoying exclusive, high-end hospitality settings.

Show Summary

In this episode of the Big World Made Small Adventure Travel Podcast, host Jason Elkins speaks with Chris about the unique world of luxury surf travel. Chris shares insights into how his company crafts custom surfing experiences that blend skill development with comfort and exclusivity in some of the world’s best tropical locations.

They discuss the challenges and rewards of working with a diverse clientele, from families to solo adventurers, all seeking meaningful progress in their surfing abilities. Chris also highlights the importance of privacy and personalized attention in creating memorable and effective surf holidays.

The conversation sheds light on the balance between high-end hospitality and authentic surfing culture, illustrating how these tailored experiences cater to those who want to improve on the waves while enjoying the finest accommodations and services.

Big World Made Small guest features are invitation-only and selected based on story, experience, and fit with the show. Guest support helps make the episode possible, but it does not determine who is featured. This helps keep the show free of third-party ads and interruptions while keeping the focus on real, story-driven conversations.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Big World Made Small podcast for the Adventure Traveler. So happy to have each and every one of you back today, and also very excited to have our guest. We've got Chris Pruitt. Chris is the owner and operator of Chris Pruitt Surf. Chris, welcome to the show. Happy to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Thanks, Jason. Great to catch up and really looking forward to the next little bit of time with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Yeah, what you do is a bit different than a lot of the guests I've had on the show. And I just found that it was really super cool, fascinating. Sometimes I ask people like, how did they come up with the name of their business? We won't spend too much time on that, but obviously you've got the word surf in there. So let's uh let's give our listeners kind of before we dig into your background and figure out how you got from where you were to where you are now, let's give our listeners just kind of an idea of what exactly it is that you do at Chris Pruitt Surf.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Great. I tailor and curate luxury surfing holidays for individuals, families, people that want to get to tropical locations, go surfing, and improve along the way. I've got locations all around the world, all based around the tropics, nice warm water, clear water, coral reefs, that sort of thing. So there's there's always a lot of other opportunities for adventure on these holidays, also.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Is it typically do your clients or potential guests typically come to you with a destination already kind of in mind and say, Chris, we want to go here? Can you can you set it up and go with us? Or do they, or is it more they approach you and say, we want to go somewhere where we can do some surfing, get better at surfing? What do you suggest? Or is it a mix of I I suspect it's a mix of the two?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

100%. Definitely a bit of both. It really comes down to what their needs and wants are and also what their abilities are. I'm not going to take beginner surfers to some big gnarly reef break somewhere. So once I ascertain their goals and what they're trying to get out of a surfing holiday, I can then tailor it to that. So places all around the world for beginners, you know, intermediate surfers, surfers that have been serving for over 25 years. And also the dynamic of the group, if it's just a solo, maybe a family, making sure that, you know, I've got the location for them that not only will the surfers enjoy, but the non-surfers in the group too. I think that's really important to cater to them. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of the times they're the ones that might be making the big decisions. So uh it's important to uh you know cater to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

I used to work in the fly fishing industry, and as you can imagine, it's kind of the same scenario where uh maybe she or he, I'm not there's there's no it's not a male-female thing, but someone in the group is I want to go somewhere cool where I can do a bunch of stuff, and my husband or my partner is only gonna be happy if he or she can go fishing. So yeah, it's it's uh it's it's a huge part of that. Do you also I suspect sometimes, because you said I'm not gonna take someone to a big gnarly break, I think I'm this is gonna be new for me to get the lingo straight, but you've got the lingo. Okay, cool. You said I'm not gonna take someone to a big gnarly break if they're they're beginners or are maybe not ready for that, but I suspect sometimes you get people say, I want to go here. I saw it on YouTube and I want to learn to surf, and that place looks really cool. So do you spend some time kind of kind of talking people out of places?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Not so much talking people out of places. Um, you know, I I've had many instances that I might be in a location in the world and like Fiji for, for example. There's where I go in Fiji, there's probably five or six quality breaks, all within a very close proximity. Um, and one of them is is Cloudbreak, which is a world-renowned, really big wave. And I get people to say, Oh, you know, I want to serve Cloudbreak, and you know, I said, Oh, do you? So we'll we'll we'll go have a look. And you know, sometimes we'll sometimes we'll jump in the water just so they can feel the energy and be in amongst it and see it. And you know, it's it's kind of a desensitizing exercise also to get people in that environment and just feel the power of the ocean. You know, at the end of the day, the ocean doesn't care how much money you have, it doesn't, you know, discriminate. It's it's it's a wild entity. And uh to be able to share it with people is quite amazing, you know. And I I definitely like to peep get people out of their comfort zone a little bit so they really feel alive in a safe environment, obviously. So yeah, there there's there's times where people say, Oh, I want to do this, and yeah, that's great. Let's let's go have a look and let's desensitize a bit. And you know, at the end of the day, I my number one job is to keep them safe, having fun and learning.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

So is desensitize a euphemism for reality check?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yeah, pretty for pretty much, you know. Okay. You know, you know, I had pulled up to a place and say, Do you want to jump in the water and you know just paddle out? And I kind of go, Well, my shoulder's a bit sore today, you know, that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 6:03

So yeah. I I I can imagine it's kind of maybe like people that want to climb things, you know, they're like, Oh, I think I'd like to climb that. And that's like, okay, well, let's just do a little hike around the the base of the mountain before we make any big decisions.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

So then it's like, oh yeah, it looked uh looked looked much smaller in the videos or whatever. So yeah, yeah. All right, that makes sense. And are you able to put together the whole trip? So, I mean, are you doing accommodations, transfers, other activities as well?

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Definitely. I have a really good partnership with a few five-star resorts, some beautiful yachts that I'm in contact with all the time. So I can handle all the booking, the monies, that sort of thing. In regards to transfers, that's all pretty straightforward with most of the places. There's kind of usually one route to get there. You know, I won't handle flights, but we'll handle the accommodation and transfers and making sure everything goes as smoothly as possible. Very cool.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Do you have a I don't know, favorite? What would you call a non-surfing activity? What do you what do you call the the other activities that people want to participate in? Is it okay to say non-surfing or do you have a better way to say that?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

No, 100%. You know, most of these places that we go to from Indonesia, Fiji, the Maldives, those sorts of places, there's a there's a really big culture also, you know. So between engaging with the local culture, you know, there might be some sort of a local charity that the resort or the yacht works with that you can get involved with and really see where the the monies go. You know, there's a place in Sumba that I spend a lot of time in Indonesia, and over 30 years they've been running a local program that has saved hundreds, not thousands, of lives over the last 30 years due to malaria. Okay. You know, so get to go into the community with their foundation and and go to the schools and meet the children, and they've got big nutrition programs. So being able to get involved with that and feed kids at the school and it's really rewarding, you know. Um you know, that that's the land sort of based stuff. You know, some places you you can go horseback riding, you can go scuba diving, you can, you know, release a brand new set of turtles that have just been born. You know, really just trying to engage with what's happening locally, I think, I think is really important. And and people walk away with a sense of, well, it's a surf trip, but geez, the the depth of the relationship of of the place they visit, I think is is key.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Now if you've got a mixed group, you've got maybe one person in the group is all about the surfing and maybe their partner or is not so much about the or like nodded into the surfing at all. Well, the surf, I know this is I'm asking to kind of generalize. I'm also asking you to generalize about people that are your clients, but yeah, my question my question is are surfers that travel are they typically kind of hardcore like the surfers like I want to surf from sunup to sundown, or are they more likely to just go out for a few hours and then go to other activities? Or what what is it typically like? What can you say about your clients?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, well, you get a bit of both. Yeah, you get a bit of both. And the reality is a lot of my clients are kind of the high net worth sort of clientele because of the yachts and the resorts and so forth. You know, so they're not hardcore surfers, meaning they have jobs. So they spend a lot of time in the office.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

We're gonna we're gonna get to we're gonna get to your background. And not everybody has the the time, focus, and energy to uh become a surf bro, but yes, I know that.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

So, yes, mentally they're hardcore surfers, you know, they they love surfing, and that and that's why they're with me. But there's a couple of different things that affect how much you surf in a day. Number one's tides, you know, some places you can only surf at high tide or low tide, there's currents involved, that sort of thing. And also the body, you know, most of my clients are kind of 40 plus professional business people, you know. So after two hours, you know, they're kind of gone, okay, that that was good. You know, we'll go in and have a break and then hopefully get out again later in the day. And I usually I find usually about day three, day four of a trip, people have gone really hard those first three or four days and they hit the wall. I see it all the time. And I try to tell people those day one, day two, let's just slide into it, you know, take your time. We've got 10 days, seven days, whatever it is, and people hit a wall. But, you know, the places we're at, you're gonna go get a nice massage, you're gonna get a good place to spa, you're gonna get a sauna.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

A hundred percent. All right. What's as someone that really knows nothing about surfing, and but I've done other activities that can kind of beat up the body, you know, like if you're doing a three or four pay, four-day horsebacking trip or something like that, you quickly realize there are certain muscles that you haven't used in a long time, and you realize, oh yeah, this is the part that hurts. So my I guess my question is when a surfer hits the wall, are there a particular set of muscles? Is it the whole body? What what is a what is a sore surfer look like and feel like?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Usually the neck, the shoulders, the back. That's probably and the arms. Because paddling, you know, paddling is not 90% of surfing. You know, if you go surfing for two hours, you probably actually do the sport of surfing out of two hours for probably on a good day, seven, eight minutes. You know, if you add up all your waves of actual surfing time, the rest of the time is being in that prone position with the with the neck back, chin up, you know. So unless people are training that constantly, it's probably one of the most fatiguing parts of surfing.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Okay. It makes sense. And it's I it's makes so much sense. And I just like would I wouldn't have guessed. I was actually, yeah, okay. All right. Yeah. So do you encourage like the people that have been on trips with you before, they kind of know you kind of know them, you kind of have, you know, the expectations are maybe a little bit more realistic, but people that are going the first time, do you encourage them to go train, to go to the gym, to do all that stuff? And and if you do, do they typically do it?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, well, it's finding the time it's finding the time for it all. Because these are busy people, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're busy people, you know. So but I find that most people that that enjoy surfing, that want to go on these sort of trips are pretty active, anyways. You know, but surfing is a very specific skill in regards to body movement and so forth. So if people are doing yoga and swimming and you know, just staying relatively fit, it's they're a step ahead of a lot of others. Someone that's come straight from a couch that hasn't done anything, you know, as soon as someone lies down on a surfboard and starts a paddle, I know what I'm in for. Um I can just tell, you know, after doing it for so long, then I think, okay, well, let's get them on something a little bit bigger with some more volume, which is gonna make paddling easier, which is gonna extend their session, which they're gonna catch more waves, they're gonna have more fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

Why does why does bigger water make it easier?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Bigger, bigger volume in a surfboard.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Bigger volume. Oh, this on the surfboard. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, it it floats more. So you're you're sitting on the surface more, so when you're paddling, the board glides. And if you're riding a board that's too thin or too short, you sink. So then you're pushing more of your own self through the water. You know, you're not as dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

I heard volume and I thought water. So I was I I was like bigger, bigger water is easier. I I wasn't sure. Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. I'm happy I'm happy I asked. I'm not afraid to skip. You probably it's great. I think we should discuss real quick about what somebody who's never been surfing, they're in decent shape. Yeah. I'm not necessarily suggesting that a whole group that's never been surfing. I don't know, you tell me. Yeah. A group that wants to go surfing, they've never been surfing. I I'm sure you could accommodate them, but what I really am curious about is what should somebody expect? Someone probably not someone like me. I said someone in reasonably good shape. I'm not sure. But uh they've never been on a surfboard. Is it realistic for them to expect that they're gonna be able to get up the first day, the first trip? What is what what do you tell them to expect?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

100%. You know, the the the most important thing with surfing is having fun. And if you're set up in the right uh conditions, not only meaning the conditions of the serve, but with the equipment, the instructions. Um like I said, I've been doing this a really long time. And if I've got the right waves and the right surfboard for a beginner server, they'll be getting up. Maybe not pretty on the first day, but they will stand up and feel that glide. And that's the most addicting part of surfing, is once you feel that glide, I think you're hooked for life.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Do you think in general terms, because there's a lot of places you can go and take a surf lesson. You know, I could go to Hawaii, I could go to Indonesia, and I could sign up for surf lessons for presumably one-on-one or group. Yeah. Do you encourage people to go try and do that somehow before they book a big surf vacation? I mean, I know there's a lot of variables, but do you think like you're you're a pro, you've been doing this a while. And I suspect there's a lot more kind of one-on-one and more flexible schedule. Because if I go book a surf lesson, I'm probably gonna do it right in front of wherever they do the surf lessons, right in front of their shop. And whatever the weather is, it is, and there's probably not a lot of flexibility to hop on the yacht and go over to the other side of the island.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

True, true. Um yeah, I mean, the more time anyone spends on a board from an absolute beginner to years involved in the sport, you know, it it's a good thing. Private tuition, you know, or very small group is obviously so important. And if you're able to do that, the results show a lot quicker. You know, I sometimes I'll go down to the beach here and there's a surf school and they've got eight people with one instructor, and they're in conditions that are very subpar, but that's the time of day that they do their lessons. So, you know, there's no no way around it. So, you know, giving someone an experience and expectations of people, you know, if if you're from the middle of a landlocked country and you get to the beach and you've got a surfboard and you're getting bounced around by the waves, and even if you just catch them on your belly and feel it, it's exhilarating, you know. So the more people are exposed to it, I I think the better results in the end, no matter how much you've had.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

That makes a lot of sense. And I'm also imagining a scenario where, and we're not disparaging any of the surf shops and lessons or anything like that, but I'm saying not at all. I I imagine a scenario where you think, oh, I'd kind of like to try it, and then maybe subpar conditions, a large, uh, you know, a high ratio of students to instructors, and I might think, oh yeah, I don't, I don't know about that. That wasn't quite what I thought. So I guess that's where I'm going with the question when I say, should they go try it first, or is there a risk, a real risk of just having a subpar experience and and deciding to write it off before you've had a chance to really see what it's like? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, that's a hard one, Jason, because you know, it depends on what sort of expectations they have going in. If they don't have any expectations and they and they go for a lesson, and you know, if they stand up once for a half a second, they've they're winning. Yeah, you know, because an hour before they had never done that before. So I I think, yeah, go to your local surf school, get a lesson, get out there, have fun. You know, everyone everyone that gets involved with surfing has to start somewhere. You know, when I started, there was no such thing as lessons, so it was just trial and error.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I think you hit it, I think you hit it right on the nose or on the dot or whatever. It's that expectations thing. Because if all your exposure to surfing is watching pro surfers on ESPN back in the day or whatever, and you think, oh, I'm gonna go learn how to surf, and I booked an hour and a half long surf class or lesson, and you're expecting to to stand up and be, you know, ride and wave or whatever. Um so what I heard you say was just try not to have expectations or just just enjoy it. Just try and you know, just enjoy it. You know, that was everything in life, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah, surfing's the most difficult sport in the world to to master because you never really master it. And the learning curve with surfing is like no other sport, there's no constant. You know, I mean, I guess with the innovation of wave pools now that the wave is pretty much the same every single time, but in the ocean, you know, you go yesterday and you went at 10 o'clock in the morning, and the tide was this and the waves were this and the wind was this, and you had the best session in your life. You go back the next day at 10 o'clock, feel like you've never been in the water. Everything's changed. Yeah, it's such a roller coaster ride. The you know, the sport of surfing, but that's what I think is one of the best parts about it. It's similar to golf. I don't play much golf because I kind of refuse to spend that money to get that frustrated. But it's very similar in the fact that you know, I'm surfing, you get that wave and you get that feeling, that bliss moment of oh my god. And then it takes you a week, two weeks, two months to feel that again. Same with golf. You have that beautiful swing, everything is perfect, and you think, oh, I've got this figured out, and then you know what happens.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

I I I bet that you have enough experience in this now, I'm I'm sure, to where when you get a group of guests and you know, you're like, oh my gosh, everything is perfect today. They have no idea how lucky they are today, especially if it's the first day of a trip. And then you're like, okay, all everything's coming together, and you know that the chances of everything coming together the rest of the week are really slim.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm at the mercy of the of the of Mother Nature, you know, between the winds and the tides, and you know, go on a surf trip, and it's always a gamble because you're outside, you know, you're you're in the elements. So, you know, there's massive amounts of surf forecasting that I can look at for tomorrow, today, for a week out. But it's mother nature, things change. You know, you you have to be able to pivot and um make make decisions on the go to try to get your guests in the best conditions for their ability at the time, and you know, it's a challenge.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

I do you have you figured out a few tricks for managing expectations? Because here's where I'm going. If if you if the first day is like that, do you sometimes is it helpful to kind of rein them in a little bit and say, wow, this was exceptionally good conditions today. So then the next day, when it's not so great, they don't feel they're they're not like Chris, why why don't we go back to where we were yesterday? It was so much better. Because and there's such it's such a parallel to fly fishing. Because I that's why I'm asking, is it because in fishing, you sometimes you get a group of clients, you know, a couple of clients, and they've got three or four days with you. And the first day you go out and it's like, man, they cannot do anything wrong. Every fish in the river wants to eat and it's just hungry. And you know that while we have a plan to go to a different stretch of the river the next day, and you know what's gonna happen is, well, why did we go here? Why didn't we go back to the same place? So I'm just curious if you've had that come up and if you've learned some tricks to manage those kinds of expectations.

SPEAKER_00 21:30

I've learned to guarantee nothing. Here you go. You know, as soon as you guarantee something, it's gonna bite you, you know where. So, you know, I'll I'll usually have a pretty good plan for 24 to 48 hours and sit down and explain what I'm thinking, why I'm thinking that, but also throw in the disclaimer of we'll see what happens. This is what things are saying. I never say definitely, you know. It I I I'm Mother Nature, you know, so it's you know, you can't guarantee anything. Things change so quickly. Forecasts are only as good as forecasts are. The best forecast is right then and there with my eyes to see the ocean, to understand what's going on, and to make decisions from there. It it makes so much sense.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

I can I can resonate with that. I I have a lot of respect for that. It's which keeps you on your toes, too. It's uh I can tell the way you're saying this, it's not like, yeah, I just show up on some beach with my wealthy uh you know, high net worth clients and and just you know sit on a beach chair and and tell them what they're doing wrong, videotape them, switch, see what they can do better.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

It's hard at times to be you know depending on Mother Nature so much because you think you got it figured out, and then here comes the curveball. There's this very small island in Fiji, a little resort called Namoto that I spend a lot of time on, and it's tiny. You can walk around it in twelve minutes, fifteen minutes maximum. It's tiny. And the staff they're always laugh at me because when we're not surfing and everyone's back on land having lunch or whatever it is. I'm just doing lat around the island from one side to the other to see what the wind's doing, what the swell is doing. I know the tide's not good for surfing, but I'm just always on it. And they just look at me and go, what are you doing? I said, Well, I'm just trying to keep my finger on the pulse, you know, because you know, I want to get people in the right conditions at the right time.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

I remember I had a fishing client that's she was pretty new to it. And I was trying to decide what flies to put on her line. And she looked at me and she's like, How do you decide what flies to put on there? I just looked at her and said, It's the voices in my head. Imagine people asking, Chris, how do you how do you know what the ocean is doing? Like just by looking at it. And it's like, well, it takes a lot of time and time and experience. So speaking of time and experience, this is the point in the conversation where we figure out how the hell did you get to this place? You clearly well, I don't know if it's clear to everybody. It's clear to me that you have a a US accent. So someone that maybe grew up in North America. And I I just happen to know that you live in Australia. So let's start with let's start with where did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Okay. I grew up in central east coast of Florida, a little town called Vero Beach. Okay. Which is about an hour and a half north of Palm Beach, about an hour south of Cocoa Beach. So on that east coast on the Atlantic.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

And that's presumably a place where people go to surf. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Not so much where I not so much my town, but just to the north is a place called Sebastian Inlet, which is on the east coast of America, probably one of the most consistent high-performance waves. Uh Kelly Splater, 11-time world champion, grew up there. You know, so we were serving the same breaks growing up together. We did have waves in my town of Vera Beach, but you know, Florida is quite inconsistent. When it's good, it's good. But you know, summertime from May till August until the hurricane season really ramps up, it's pretty flat. So but that's one reason I became well, I fell in love with the ocean so much, is because I was surfing. But when I wasn't surfing, I was fishing, I was diving, I was spearfishing. I was always in the ocean.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

That's what I was that's what I was curious about is kind of how did you make the connection with the ocean? And I guess the I guess the question is, what was it like growing up there? What were your parents into spending time on the water as well? I mean, let's just talk a little bit about kind of what it was like growing up.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, my parents they didn't surf. They loved the beach. Um they were they they are, they were big sailors. Uh so I spent a lot of time on on sailboats, even around the water, go down to Florida Keys, that sort of thing, Bahamas. But at a very early age, we used to go to the beach a lot in the summertime after dinner because of the sunset time. So we'd have dinner and we'd walk two or three blocks away from the beach, and we'd spend time there. And one of the earliest memories I have is body surfing on my mother's back. I think I was maybe three or four years old, you know, and we were always at the beach, you know, and you know, we at low tide when there's a big flat sandy beach, we used to draw sailboats with sticks in the sand and pretend we were in them. And and then once it started to get older, I was starting to ride, you know, the blow-up red rafts that used to take all the skin off the front of your chest uh because of the rashes were so bad.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Well, okay, you gotta tell me a little bit more about that because I'm not you're saying the blow-up red rafts. So like this was a specific type thing, you'd go get in the waves, or what was that all about?

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah, yeah. Just a this is kind of before the boogie board actually even started. So I'm talking mid-70s, mid-70s, I guess. So you you blow these rafts up, and you know, they were probably about three feet long and about, I don't know, two and a half feet wide, and you just ride waves on your belly, you know. And from a from a young age, my parents used to literally have to drag me out of the water because I would spend the whole time in the waves, riding on my belly, just enjoying it. And you know, my sister and I would have races and and and that sort of thing. And then it wasn't until later that I think I was about nine when I got my first boogie board. I mowed lawns for for the parents, and uh they said, you know, if you if you mow the lawns, we'll get you a boogie board. I had that for about I think a month and left it on the front porch of the house, and it got stolen overnight. I was devastated, but at the end of the day, it was the best thing that ever happened because the next move was a surfboard.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

So you were forced to go pretty quickly because yeah, who wants to buy a second boogie board? There's a natural progression here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Yeah, I got the first surfboard and then.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Probably a good life lesson as well. Yeah, even I'm sure your parents reminded you that often. Yeah, well, it serves you right. You know, you learn not to leave your stuff later on, yeah. So it was you and your sister, you mentioned her, so it was just the two of you for for the kids and the family?

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. Just the two of us. She's about four years older than me. She's based in the States Phil. She's now back in North Carolina, which she loves, and she runs leadership programs. And uh yeah, it's it's great to great to see them when I get a chance to. It's it's pretty far, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Did you did you ever have an experience with your sister with your sister where you felt like maybe she was trying to kill you? Because sometimes when you have an older sibling and you're out in the water doing things like that, I remember, you know, some some situations with my sibling. But was there ever a moment where you she took you a little bit past your limits and you you remember that? I think it was probably the other way around. Really? Well, my sibling is younger too. So actually it was he was into mountain climbing for a while, and he took me to some places that were way above my school level. So yeah. All right. That's uh that's really cool. What were you what were you interested in in school? Did you have plans to have a a normal life? I mean, if I went, if we had a time machine and I went back to when you were 12 or 13 and I said, geez, Chris, what do you want to do when you grow up? Do you remember what you would have said?

SPEAKER_00 29:16

You know, it at that age, probably not so much, but when I was starting to get toward the end of high school, early years of college, I was I really had this vision of doing like some sort of a bed and breakfast sort of thing. Because at that time surf camps really weren't even happening, but just I had an idea of having somewhere that people could come and go surfing, and you know, the accommodation and food and stuff would be sorted for them. And then, you know, ironically, over the years, it kind of molded into something similar. Yeah. But yeah, when I when I was at college at the University of South Florida in Tampa, I I studied communications, which is a very broad, very broad subject.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Kind of like psych kind of like psychology.

SPEAKER_00 30:11

You know, I think what I really gained out of it was the interpersonal communication skills. And, you know, I have a lot of friends that I went to school with that, you know, were studying business and accounting, but they couldn't talk to people, you know, and that really blew my mind. I'm like, how are you gonna run a business if you can't actually talk to people? And you're so socially awkward.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Well, fortunately, I don't run into those people because everybody I run into on this show is pretty good at it. So it's like but but you're you're you're spot on right because there are people that yeah but when you when you chose communications, were you because you mentioned you were kind of thinking maybe a BNB surfing type of operation, something. But when you chose communications, was it a conscious decision? Like, okay, I can use this to then build that business, or did you was there was there a moment of you thinking you might have to do a regular job for a while?

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Probably two levels of that. Number number one is that my older sister did it, she went to Wake Forest, and you know, I when I was graduating from high school going into college, I was so gung-ho on surfing and just so it was everything of my existence. And the reason I went to Tampa was on the Gulf of Mexico, and I was fortunate that my parents were gonna help me out with college. I knew that if I went anywhere on the East Coast where there's a chance of getting waves, that yeah, I just I I had to make the first adult responsibility decision in my life and go as far away from the surf as possible. Okay, so I could so I could get it done.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Let's let's let's dig a little deeper because I I hear you, I hear what you're saying. Was that was that hard? Did you have anybody else encouraging you that way? Or did you actually have the the wherewithal at 18 or 19 to to be that self-aware that you're like, man, if I if there's any waves around, I'm gonna be a 12-year bachelor degree student.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

100%. I you know, I think I had the the idea that I've got one opportunity at this and I and I need to take it and run with it. Wow. You know, so very mature. Yeah, for that age. But saying that, my summers, as soon as in between each each year, I'd come home, work hard for a month, save as much money, and disappear to Costa Rica for a month or six weeks. Yeah, so you had warred us in any tourism. Yeah, there wasn't any tourism in Costa Rica really then, you know? Not monthly. Main mainly mainly surf tourism at that point.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

What did your parents think about you taking off and going to Central America for your summers as they're supporting you? I mean, I guess you were working hard and you weren't, you know, you weren't blowing off school to go surfing, but in the summers, I can't you know what it were they supportive of that at the time?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

100%. And I'm so fortunate that they were so supportive because, you know, when I graduated from college, my parents got me a triple board bag, which means I could put three surfboards in a bag and put it on a plane, an atlas of the world. And my best friend got a briefcase with his initials on it. So that was my parents knew from a young age that that was kind of my trajectory. And my dad still today kind of looks at me and shakes his head and goes, How have you done this? You know, how have you been able to take a passion and turn it into a career?

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Because I can imagine a few a few parents out there that back in the 70s, 80s, when their kid says, I just want to go surfing. I want to go try the world surfing. And like, well, how are you gonna make money at that? Well, why did we spend so much money for you to go get a degree? And and all that. So that begs the question what the heck was going on with your parents that they were that open-minded? And like, I think we need to dig it. I think we need to dig into that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

You know, I I don't know. They've just always been very down-to-earth supportive. They, you know, sailing was their thing, you know, so they I think understood the being outside, being in the elements, and uh, you know, they they just wanted us, you know, kids to be happy. And they knew what made me happy. And as long as that I was still on that road of chasing surfing somehow to make it into a career without having to come back and say, you know, I need money. You know, I I was able to prove myself along the way and uh, you know, and and to make it happen from straight out of college and moving to Costa Rica for eight months and then moving to the north shore of Hawaii to Oahu.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

And then we're gonna we're gonna dig into that, but if you don't mind, I I do want to ask you, are your parents because obviously they were into sailing, were are they also from Florida? Is was there I just no, my I want to know a little bit about their background.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Okay, yeah, they're from they're from Michigan. They ended up in Florida because of my dad's work. He used to be with GM and Ford back in the day. So he was based in Sarasota for a while. I was actually born in Miami, uh, and then we moved up to to Vera Beach about three hours north. My sister was born in Iowa. So very happy that nothing against Iowa. Nothing against Iowa, but but for a surfer. Yes, I I I still kind of think now and again what would have happened. Where would I be now if you know I might be a fly fishing guy because I love fly fishing too.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

So not much not much of that in Iowa, I don't think. And someone, yeah, someone's gonna tell me, Jason, you clearly don't know anything. There's great fly fishing in Iowa. But uh okay, yeah, that that's that's interesting. And was your dad kind of with his job? It's you mentioned GM for like an engineer type, just like that type of person.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yes. So he is probably one of the most amazing engineers, slash mechanics, entrepreneurs that I know. If any, you know, most people, if their blender stops working, they throw it out and buy a new one, and he takes it out from and takes it apart and somehow goes into his yellow book, finds the part that he needs, gets it, fixes it. All of our cars, you know, his kids growing up. He he spent a lot of time once he left the motor industry and did his own thing. He was a local mechanic for foreign cars, Mercedes, BMWs. And where I grew up in Florida, there's a lot of gated communities, a lot of people with Mercedes and BMWs and that sort of thing. So it was good, it was good business, good enough business to Yeah, and he's an entrepreneur, you know. Yeah, yeah. In the late 70s, he he started uh solar hot woo solar hot water heating systems for houses, which was way before its time in the late 70s around that energy crisis that they had. You know, he yeah, just always, always uh kind of a step ahead with being an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

I don't know if they started this before you came along. It sounds like maybe they did, but do you know how they got involved in sailing? Do you know the story behind that?

SPEAKER_00 37:23

I mean, I I think it was from a young age and you know, growing up near lakes, like Lake St. Clair, just outside of Detroit. And then also once they moved to Florida, I think that was their real grasp at that lifestyle, being in Sarasota on the Gulf, and then being in in Miami. I had some really good friends down there that had a house that was out on Stilts out in Key Biscayne. So as kids, you know, I spent a lot of time out there at Stiltsville and that whole Jimmy Buffett lifestyle uh was happening, which was a lot of fun. And uh yeah, just the freedom of being on a boat and turning the engine off and you know, winding the sails and off you go. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

That's very cool. I appreciate you sharing that with us. Yeah, of course. So let's jump into how you managed to turn uh this I don't know what word you use, obsession, passion, whatever in into money. Like when was what was the first because you said you moved to Costa Rica for eight months and then ended up in Hawaii, I think you said.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:23

So where where did it start to make money? What kind of opportunities were there for someone like you that just wanted to surf and travel the world, but uh parents insisted you better make a little bit of money while you do it.

SPEAKER_00 38:35

It it happened once I came to Australia. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Uh well, we better I don't want to leave out, I don't want to leave out from graduation to Australia. So forget my question for just a moment. Let's talk about Costa Rica and other things that led up to that.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Yeah, so Costa Rica was uh was amazing. I'd been there probably three or four times from end of high school through college until we spent a lot of time there. And my friend Dave and I, his mother was dating a gentleman that had a restaurant bar hotel in Tamarinda, and we went down there in well, this would have been 1993, 1994, I guess, and kind of stayed there and helped out and surfed and you know, got by. And uh that was pretty much just on savings because at the time I I couldn't work in Costa Rica, I didn't have a a work permit, so we just kind of helped out here and there. And then he decided that he was going to move to Hawaii because his girlfriend was going there. So I followed him because I'd had enough of Costa Rica, and we went to the North Shore of Oahu, which is the probably the most famous surfing area in the world. And as for a you know, a small little blonde-headed Floridian going to the Mount Everest of surfing was pretty interesting. But uh I ended up working there as a tour guide. So once again, in the business of speaking with people and and sharing. So I So what was what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 40:03

Yeah, tell me what it was amazing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:05

It it was cultural, it was in a it was a cultural center, yet a botanical garden. So I had to learn a lot about the culture and a lot about the botanical garden. Uh and it was the most beautiful it's called Waimea Valley, which is at Waimea Bay on the north shore of the water, and it's a really special place for the Hawaiian culture. Um there's a lot of heyhouse, which are burial sites and so forth. So I had some amazing mentors that I worked with there, the true Hawaiian people, and they put me in, you know, brought me under their wings a little bit and shared not only what I was learning on paper, but what the true Hawaiian culture was about. And that really resonated with me in the connection to nature and the ocean and everything else. That that really was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

I sus I suspect uh uh quite a few people listening to this have been to Oahu. But my and I have been as well. I've driven around Oahu once, but and as I recall, the North Shore is not Waikiki. No, not Honolulu. It's it's okay. And I just want to point that out. So you weren't like spending this time in on Waikiki Beach, which would probably be an interesting place to be as well, I guess. I don't know, but it sounds like you were much more connected with uh the culture and the people.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yes, yes. The the North Shore of Oahu, um, it's like I said, it's a Mount Everest of surfing, you know, some of the biggest, heaviest waves in the world. And being from Florida, and yes, I traveled to Costa Rica and thought I'd caught some big waves before in my life, but uh to put myself in that situation and have some very close Hawaiian friends that helped me learn the ropes, you know, so to say, out there. Uh-huh. Yeah, it was it was amazing. And you know, they'd they'd take us to their barbecues on the weekends, and at night we'd go walk the reef flats and catch lobsters with torches, you know, with flashlights. And just the real the real Hawaiian way of life. And I was so fortunate to be able to be taken into that.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

That was a special time, I imagine, for you, but I I can even imagine because I grew up, you know, you and I are probably fairly close in age, you might be a little younger, but to yeah, to be on Oahu as somebody that was really into surfing during those years, I can imagine. Like, I don't know. It just seems like you can't replace. I don't, is there any place in the world that still has that? I mean, that was just a special time, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:32

And you know, like everywhere else in the world over the last 10 years, even so you know, populations have exploded and things are just different, you know. And yeah, yeah, it was it was busy-ish then, but nowhere near like it is now. So to be able to feel the real country of the north shore of Oahu with the with the people was I mean, I I still look back and pinch myself with you know everything from Costa Rica to Hawaii and how I got to where I am, you know. It was a very special taunt and very fortunate.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

So cool. Were there a lot of other people from either around the world or from mainland US that were kind of similar to you in the sense that I'm I'm I just I'm on my pilgrimage, my migration to Mecca on the north shore of Oahu, and probably most of you are underemployed, but there's a lot of beer and a lot of sand and a lot of water, right? Is just kind of how I picture that.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah, and and the surfing season on the north shore of Oahu is, you know, winter, so the North American winter. So call it November till about March. So you get a huge influx of tourists that come for that over those months, because that's when the prime surfing time is. But then the summertime when there's no waves, and that's when it's all down in the Waikiki Honolulu area on the opposite end of the island. I think that's where I really made the real connections. You know, not so much because of the surf, but what was happening when there wasn't a surf and spending time with the families and you know, really integrating into the culture. Um yeah, it was really special.

SPEAKER_01 44:07

That's uh yeah, that's that's very cool. I just kind of trying to imagine it in my head. And of course, I my my imaginings are based on things I saw on TV and some of the the 70s, 80s, kind of the surf what I what some of you grew up in Wyoming I grew up in Wyoming, so I'm kind of like the guy from probably why I ended up in fly fishing and mountain stuff, but all right, that's that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 44:29

And but it it's it's funny you say Wyoming and and what it drew you to the mountain climbing and fly fishing. I go to the mountains and I'm a fish out of water, but I'm so blown away by that environment, you know, and I get a sore neck because I'm just doing this the whole time, you know, just looking up the the streams and I'm yeah, I'm I'm really drawn to the mountains also. I don't spend nearly enough time in them because you know that's not what I do, but when I get the chance, it's it's very similar, I think.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

Yeah. The the world is a fascinating place. And and I feel like when I You know, I I lived on an island 30 miles off the coast of of Belize and managed a fly a fly fishing and scuba diving resort there. And it, you know, as someone from Wyoming, I had traveled around a bit before that, not a whole lot, but a bit. And to I just remember when I got there, you know, there's a coral reef right there in the scuba diving and the water. It was just like, this is so cool and so different. And I I I remember my boss there, the guy that owned the place. I think I'd been there two weeks and he had me driving the 48-foot dive boat and taking the guests back to Belize City. I had, I'd, I'd never, I'd rid I'd rode a drift boat, which is basically a rowboat before. But yeah, hear Jason from it was so much fun. It was, yeah, it was crazy. I remember I was going back, we were taking guests back to Belize City to get them to the airport. We'd had like 20 guests. There are probably eight or nine staff on the boat. I'm driving the boat and the seeds are really high for me. Yeah. And for my for my wife at the time, you know, she grew up in Montana, and I turned around at one point and looked at her, and she's sitting there with the life jacket on, like ready to bailout. Nobody else has the life jacket on. And I'm like, oh my gosh, Tanya, you're making me look bad.

unknown 46:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

She's the only she was the only one on the boat that really knew that I had no business driving the boat. So I don't blame her. She she was smart, but it's funny. Anyway, so yes, I have a lot of I have some fun memories around the water as well. So I I just yeah, that's that's very cool. So and you were a guide at the uh at the cultural center, and you said it was um not an arbor arboretum, but uh botanical garden. Botanical garden, right? Yeah. So tell me a little bit about yeah, yeah. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

What was that like? So so I take people on walking tours or there was a tram that was two cars that probably held 60 people, I'm saying. And you drive up through the valley up until the very top where the waterfall was, where they'd have the diving show off the cliffs a couple of times a day. Okay. So, you know, I had to learn a really long script about driving up into the valley and talking about different plants or the the hays, which were the burial places, uh, and just Hawaiian history and and that sort of thing, um, which was fun. But the walking tours I I found really good because, you know, they'd come and meet me at the sign at 2 p.m. that said meet here for this tour. And um, you know, usually small groups, you know, two people, six people, and and really be able to just have a chat with people and and walk around and and show them different things from the different plants and freshwater prawns that were in the streams. And one one of the most amazing experiences I had, I was at one of the heyows, which just looks like you know, kind of a rock structure, which has been there for hundreds of years. And I'm doing a speech about what the hey is and what it means. And like I'm talking to you right now, all of a sudden it felt like someone just knocked the wind out of me. Like I just gone. And I'm usually not short for words, you know. I can I can talk. I've noticed that. And I'm looking, I'm I'm looking at my I'm looking at my guests, and they're looking at me, and I'm just like literally nothing came out. And then it came good, and I was kind of like really freaked out about it, and went and spoke to my my Hawaiian friend slash colleague, Darylyn. And I told her, you know, I said, What, you know, and she said, Oh, you felt it. I'm like, felt something, you know, I'm not too sure. And she said, You just you just felt the mana, you know, that that spirit just just got into you. And I said, Well, whatever it was, was it was a real wake-up moment, you know. I mean, I I think that I'm a pretty well connected with my emotions and all that sort of stuff and in kind of a spiritual world, but yeah, it really you know it hit me for six, as they say here in Australia. Like it it was it was shocking, but I I think because I had put myself into that culture with the people, and maybe that gave me an opportunity to feel that, but it was really special.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Well, I I I'm happy you said that because I wanted to ask did you get the impression the clients that were with you or the guests that were with you didn't feel anything? It was just you, it sounds like yeah, so yeah, you earned it. That was an earned what was it? Yeah, mana, yeah, mana. What do you call it? Mana, mana, mana moment. Yes, that's yeah. Well, that's pretty cool. You actually said I was I felt some shares go up my spine just listening to you share the story. So I yeah, I guess I got it too. So wow, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, and you know, I I think about that feeling and my not not my goal, but a lot of my clients when I take them to special places and they have that connection and that that feeling or that emotional overdrive that they have internally, you know, to me that's that's really what is why I do what I do is is to give people those bliss moments. Love it.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Love it, love it, love it. Did you was that a job you were actively pursuing when you were there, or did was it just I need money and that was I saw I need money.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

I was I was living on a couch at at Sunset Beach, surfing the best ways of my life, watching my bank account. Drop, drop. Well, I wasn't watching it because I was pre-internet, so it was my checkbook watching it, and I was terrible at it.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

And and you played an act you played an active role in it too. You weren't just passively Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

So I did a lot Yeah, I did work in a surf shop for a little bit in Hawaii, uh, and then I did it was very part-time, and then I got the job at the Waimea Valley, and then two nights a week I'd washed dishes, excuse me, at a at a pizza restaurant at the end of my road just to you know get an extra thirty bucks a week.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

Yeah. How did you get the job as the guide? Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

It was advertised and I went in and at that time I had long blonde hair to about here. And uh, you know, they said if you get the job you're gonna have to cut your hair. And I said, fair enough, I need the money. So yeah, they gave me a script that was about four pages long that I had to memorize. And in two weeks' time I came back in and sat down in the room with my boss, and he said, you know, pretend like you're in the tram and give me the spiel. Wow. I it did well enough to to pass, but I think I studied harder for that than I did for all my years in college. Because there's there was a time frame, two weeks, get it done, and you need a job.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Why do you think if you were to guess, or maybe you uh were completely aware of it, but I'm imagining if I own a business like that and I am looking for a guide, I'm gonna hire a Hawaiian. How do you think you got the job? What was the did you have some sort of thing? I'm just curious how that happened.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

No, that's a very fair point. I would say that 80% of the employees there were local Hawaiian. I'm ho I'd like to say that it was my charisma and my um interpersonal communication. I'm not too sure otherwise than Jason.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Let's just go with let's just go with that. That sounds like a good answer. I I like it. All right.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

You know, and I think the ability just to talk to people communicate.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

Communicate. So you had mentioned, because yeah, you mentioned earlier something about going to school for communications, and we we discussed that a bit. And I wanted to ask you, was there ever a moment when you thought, you know what, I wasted my time in school? I could have been in Hawaii four years earlier and things would have still worked out fine? Or do you like what what advice would you give your younger self if you're 19 and you're like, well, I could go to Costa Rica now or I could go to school for the next four years? What would you have given yourself the same advice?

SPEAKER_00 53:07

I would do it exactly the same way that I did it. Okay. I th I you know, I I think you know, college isn't for everyone, I guess, but I didn't have a trade, meaning, you know, I wasn't gonna become a builder or a plumber or something like that, where you especially here in Australia, you out of high school you get an internship and then you know, but I I didn't have that. So for what I wanted to do and the life experience and to learn a bit of discipline through through college and to meet so many, you know, it was forty-seven thousand people at my school at that point, you know. So I came up from a very small town in Veer Beach, Florida, to you know, the world is my oyster now, and and just to be able to meet so many people and talk to so many different cultures, and I think I think I w I wouldn't change a thing. Okay. I think it's important to yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

Yeah. Okay, so back to uh Hawaii. How long were you there and what was your next step?

SPEAKER_00 54:00

I was there for about two years, and then it wasn't that long, and then I moved back to Florida because I needed to save some money, and at that point I went to Australia. Does that mean you moved back to mom and dad's? I did. Yeah, I'm not sure. No, I there's no yeah, I've done it. I think I was there for I I was with them for about a month, then I did get an apartment, and I worked at a friend's surf shop. I managed his surf shop for him, and in the evenings worked as a bartender at a local restaurant, which was so much fun. Like everyone surfed, and it was a really great great group of people. So I saved money for I think it was about eight months. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

Hey, before we go any f before I forget to ask this, I I'm aware of this kind of I don't remember what they call it, but this kind of sense of isolation some people get living in Hawaii. Did you did you get that? And yeah, island fever. That's what I thought it was. And I was curious if you got that and if going back to Florida, I just what would you what was your experience around island fever, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Yeah, you know, I mean it's it's definitely a thing. I mean, that island is Oahu, it's a lot bigger than a lot of the islands I've spent time on in the in the last 15 to 20 years. But the funny thing is, is you leave it and you go to Florida, and then you're missing it.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:21

You're missing you're missing the island fever, you know, just the just how simple life was, you know. Okay. Not getting caught up in the rat race. And um, you know, so yeah, it's I think being able to acknowledge and appreciate both sides of it is the key, because if you if you dwell too much on either one of them, you're just gonna be stuck, you know. So take the good from each, take the bad from each, and mission together, and there's life.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

Yeah, I I Yes, and I get a feeling a lot of people, especially you know, if if if you're living on in the continental US or North America and you think, oh I have an opportunity to move to Hawaii, they get a job offer or whatever. And it's like that's great, and they go there and and they don't necessarily stick around a long time. But it's kind of the same thing if you move to Arizona sometimes because it gets really hot there in the summers, or you have to move to New England. And so yeah, it's just kind of there's there's turnoffs to everything. All right. So you're in Florida, you said you worked at a a buddy's surf shop, bartending. Did you feel like bartending? Because bartending has come up in several conversations I've had. It's a it's like just kind of a usually it comes up. I ask somebody, I'll say, well, if you were going to hire somebody to be a guide or a trip leader, what industry would you want to pull them from? And oftentimes they say either bartenders or teachers, you know, to come in and be guided. Stuff like that. Did you see some kind of correlations between bartending and and uh spending time with your clients and making, you know, managing expectations, keeping everybody happy? Or I'm just curious.

SPEAKER_00 56:51

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's it's it's you know, the to be able to break the ice with a total stranger, um, and and to be able to get a conversation rolling, you know, I think it's uh the skill not not that everyone has, you know. So to be able just to be comfortable talking to anyone at any time. It's you know, like you said, the the bartenders, the teachers, they they have to be a little bit extroverted to be able to, you know, communicate with people at all times, with you know, at all different levels of society, you know. It it can be quite daunting to, you know, talk to someone that is very famous, well known, you know, whatever it may be. But at the end of the day, we're all human, you know, we've all got a story to tell. So, you know, to to be able to integrate with everyone and chat to everyone and learn from everyone is incredible.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Yeah, it's a it's a great opportunity because most people don't probably have conversations with more than a three, two or three people a day. You know, I mean, I'm just I'm even thinking myself sometimes. I mean, I have these conversations, which and there's a reason I do these is because probably it it allows me to have interesting conversations. But uh, but other than that, it's like, you know, you might talk to a couple people, but boy, a bartender, you know, eight-hour shift. You've engaged with, you know, probably 100, 200 people, not all at the same level, of course, but you're also dealing with a variety of personalities and expectations and sometimes even managing people that are rude. Yes. Or uh that need to be cut off or or asked to leave or whatever. And um, yeah, it's uh I think it would be good training to be at anybody working in tourism project. Sure is. But all right, cool. So what where'd you go from there? I'm I'm I don't want to jump right to Australia, but I want to make sure we get there.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Yeah, well, after Florida, I while I was in Florida for that eight months, 10 months, I was also got back into competitive surfing, which I'd done since I was about 14. When I was in college, I didn't obviously. So I got back into it. And the day before I left to go to Australia was the East Coast Championships in Sebastian Inlet. I had nothing to lose and ended up winning for my age group. I think that was I think it was 25 and under or something like that at that point. So I left and I left Florida on an absolute high, you know. And off I went. And the next day got dropped off at Orlando Airport and with entirely too much baggage and got I think I ended up paying for the surfboards about four times with the excess luggage they charged me. And and back then you could argue at an airport. You can't argue at airports anymore, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 59:37

And yeah, came to what was your intention when you got on the plane to go to Australia? What were you going? I I know you're gonna say surfing, but but there's I mean a little bit more than that. What were you going to Australia?

SPEAKER_00 59:48

There's a little bit more to this. There there's an ex-wife involved that was Australi that was Australian. So that's how I ended up.

SPEAKER_01 59:57

And you met her and you met her in Hawaii tending bar in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:01

No, no. Keep things professional.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Yeah, yeah. Bartenders, yeah. Yeah, that's a yep. All right. So okay, so you met her in Hawaii. She ended up in Florida, which is why you only stayed a month at your mom's and dad's house. Yes. Before you got your own apartment. Got an apartment. I'm connecting the dots here. I'm pretty good at connecting dots. So all right. And then it was like she, you know, so you went to Australia because she said the surfing was great, and you're like, okay, cool, let's go.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

All right. Yeah. So so and flew into Brisbane, drove about an hour and a half north to a place called Noosa Heads, which is one of the most beautiful places that I'd ever seen at that point, and I'm still here. And that was 1998 when we are when we arrived.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

And Noosa Head is so let's for our geographic geographically challenged listeners, including I've been to Australia and I still haven't gonna ask this question. Okay, so you said Brisbane. So Brisbane is south of Sydney, north. North of Sydney. North of Sydney, I knew that, but I was afraid to yeah, whatever. Okay. North of Sydney. And then Newsahead is further north from there? Correct. About an hour and a half drive. Okay, and some people have heard of surfer's paradise, so I gotta ask you that question. Surfer's paradise is the other direction from Brisbane?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:18

Yes, about an hour and a half south. And it's it still blows my mind that they called it surfer's paradise because it's a bunch of high rises on the beach and the waves aren't great. Saying that, the Gold Coast, which is the whole area, um, has some of the best surf in Australia, just a little bit further south. But I would say News the Heads. Not at surfers, not at Surfers, but News the Heads is a surfer's paradise. I mean, we've got miles of open beaches, we've got big headlands that have bays with point breaks, and you know, it's it's very special, very crowded when the surf gets good, because everyone wants to come here.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

But yeah, you deal with that. Imagine a scenario where shortly after you got there, for some weird reason you just woke up one morning and said, I'm not interested in surfing anymore. Would you have stayed in that area? Possibly. I guess that's my way of saying, is there anything else there you like? Other people Yeah. That that was an ex-wife. Well, but but you've got but you've but but you do have a wife that's there now, right? Correct. Yeah, yeah. You know, I moved on to her. Yeah. You should too. No. Just kidding. All right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:30

Yeah, I I mean, it's it's a beautiful spot, and just to the south of us, we we've got a big harbor that has sailing and and that so yeah, I think I'd still find myself in in this area. Yeah, it's it's just stunningly beautiful. And I mean, if I wasn't in the servant, I probably wouldn't have ended up here anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

So well, that's why I had to say if you were there, and then all of a sudden you're like, I kind of like air. Oh, maybe I'll stick around because you mentioned sailing. Have you have you continued with sailing? Is that something you've talked about? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, uh about 10 years ago, now I got my captain's license to be able to sail boats through the RYA, the Royal Yachting Association, so up to 200 res tons. So I did a lot of training with that. And my wife and I and another couple just spent a week up in the With Sunday Islands up near the barrier reef, where we chartered chartered a 44-foot lagoon catamaran and went and disappeared out into the islands for a week. And yeah, I love sailing. I mean, it's it's it's very similar to surfing, I think. Just yeah, I would I would think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:36

Yeah, yeah. So tell me about the kind of the business and career path. So you got to like did you know what you were gonna do when you got to Australia? Is it just no once again?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:46

I I was in surf shops, I was at a restaurant, bartending and being a waiter and that sort of thing. Uh and then we lived with a couple at the time, and she was moving back to Victoria, which were Melbourne is down the south of the country, and she was working for a local surf school. And she said, I need to introduce you to my boss because I think you guys will get on and I think you'd be great at doing this job. So that's kind of where it started. So I got the introduction and I went and met his name's Ross Phillips from he he uh still owns uh Tropic Surf, which is probably the premier luxury surfing company in the world up until this point. And he said to me, at the time he only had a local surf school on the beach here. And he said to me, I've got a a dream that I want to take people on surfing improv improvement holidays in the Maldives on boats. Would you be interested? And I went, surfing, boats, Maldives, yes. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:41

I think I could make that work. Yeah, I'm gonna have to give notice. I'm gonna have to give notice down at the bar a bit. Yeah, I'll be ready.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:47

That's exactly how that panned out. So worked at a surf school here on the beach for probably three or four years, but then once or twice a year would go on these trips to the Maldives on boats and do seven, ten day surfing improvement holidays all around the islands and come back and work at the surf school, and then it got to a point where the overseas stuff was really starting to take off with the business, and I became kind of his right-hand man in leading those expeditions through the Maldives. And yeah, so we went from one trip a year to three trips a year to 13 trips a year, you know, and it got busy.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:26

Chris, was that a was that a brand new concept? I mean, because honestly, until I until I met you, I never honestly it never really even occurred to me. Surfing improvement holidays, it's really cool. But it was pretty brand new.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:39

Yeah, that's pretty brand new at that point. You know, there was a lot of people offering surf trips by boat. Okay. But there wasn't really curated trips for different levels of surfers wanting different things. So there was definitely an opportunity in the market at the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

I'm gonna ask the question that's in my head. It might be in somebody else's head, because before this conversation, before I met you a couple weeks ago, I would have thought that maybe surfing was not a high net worth individual type of sport. I've and I can as somebody who spent a lot of time as a fly fishing guy, I feel like I can say this being a fly fishing guy to working in the fly fishing industry is not a great way to make a bunch of money. So it's kind of like, oh, surfers and maybe ski bombs. And I hope you're good. I'm gonna say ski bombs. I did not say surf bombs, but there's this kind of this idea that you don't really make much money doing that. Fly fishing, I think people do spend a lot of money to go fly fishing. I know that. Uh but the people that work in fly fishing don't necessarily make a lot of money. But I guess where I'm going with that is was there a moment in time where uh surfing became a high end expensive thing to go do, or has it been like that the whole time and maybe people like me just never noticed?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:53

That's a great question, Jason. I I think uh a lot of uh people that surfed when they were kids, so I'm talking 70s, 70s. In the seventies and the eighties. And then they went off and you know became very successful businessmen and women around the world. Got to a certain lifestyle and then kind of went, I used to really like to surf. Yeah. But it's been a while. And traditionally a lot of the offers that were out there were you know pretty rough. You know, but you know, the these individuals are used to a certain level of lifestyle, but they don't want to go on a boat trip that every hour it's your turn on the bucket to get the water out of the hole, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

So they were looking for the water. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:50

You know, so you know, to be able to offer and it and it's still expanding the the quality of boats and locations and and that sort of thing. So it's a funny story because we use with the company Tropic Surf that I was with for 25 years, we would approach resorts and say, Hey, we'd love to offer surfing service at your resort. And in the early days, one of the biggest answers we'd always get was you don't want backpackers here, right? Something like that. Along those lines. Well, number one, there's no waves in the Maldives. Number two is surfers don't stay here. Because exactly what you said, they had a concept of spicoli, you know, as the surfer that didn't have the money and blah blah blah. But how they were wrong, because you know, for instance, at that four seasons resort in the Maldives, probably sell now over a thousand room nights per year to that resort through the company Tropic Surf I was working with, you know. And then that model got copied to about 17 different high-end resorts around the world through through Tropic Surf.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

So I I'm just guessing, I suspect because you m what you said makes sense. They were younger surfing in the summers between school, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:10

Maybe, maybe they even spent a year in a place like Costa Rica, but then they went and uh you know built a business or I don't want to say be responsible. Yeah. Sounds like a pushing bottom saying that. But life happens. But I also suspect so when they're like, you know what? I used to really like surfing, and I'd like to kind of I I guess from going with this is I can imagine that oh, I want my kids to be exposed to it as well. Yes, right, because that's such an important part of their childhood. So I can see people taking their their high school kids that are getting ready to graduate in high school, and they're like, this is our last opportunity to go do something together, father, son, mother, daughter, whatever type of trip. Is that I suspect it's not quite a bit of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:52

100 100%. And yeah, there's nothing more rewarding than seeing a family in the water together, you know, supporting each other, cheering each other on. Um because at the end of the day, there's really no control in the water in regards to you know, mom or dad being the alpha.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:09

Like you said, the the water, the ocean doesn't discriminate. It's just not all in the same place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

And you know, I've I've had families that I've been working with for close to 14 years now. And to see them go from, you know, the kids were young and now they're adults and they've got jobs. And to see that family dynamic together, sharing surfing, and not just the surfing part of it, but actually sharing the time together is so special to watch, you know, because at home, like we said, life gets busy and life happens and it's it's all go, go, go, catch up on a weekend here or there, but to be on a boat or a resort or a tiny little island for seven, ten days together, have every meal together, share a surfing session together, watch the sunset together. You know, it's it's really special to to watch. Yeah, and to to watch people reconnect.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:05

I remember something you just said remind me, somebody had told me something along the lines of I like trout fishing because trout live in beautiful places. Yeah. You know, and it's like there's you know, fishing is one of those things. Golf can be one of those things. You mentioned that earlier. Um surfing seems like it would be, even skiing is it's not always about I'm not gonna say I'm not putting these words in your mouth, but I suspect sometimes it's like it's not always about the surfing. I had a hot air balloon and I had a crew of people, we'd go out ballooning almost every weekend. I was at a business, and my crew, there was this guy in my crew that every once in a while he'd just turn around and look at me when we're having one of those connection moments with everybody and we're yeah, toast toasting the end of a flight, and he would just look at me and say, It's not about the balloon. You know, it's about it's about those connections. So I guess you'd say it's not about the board, it's about it brings people together, right? Yeah, it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

You know, that part is guaranteed, bringing people together and you know, and reconnecting and resetting the surfing is is a bonus. Yeah, you know, because again, to be able to say July 2027, we're gonna go for a week to this location. You know, yes, traditionally that time of year is really good for surfing, but you just never know until what happens, you know. You never know. But to have everything in place to facilitate other activities or just facilitate that place and that space for people to come together, families, you know, it's it's I don't know really nice.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:39

And what I'm thinking is there's probably there's a lot of different types of people, but there's probably you could break travelers into maybe the type of travelers that would plan a family vacation and it's like, well, what are we gonna do? What are we going to do? And it might be sit on a beach or on a cruise ship and drink and eat. And then there's the other type of people maybe that need to have we're going surfing, we're going skiing, we're going fishing, we're going on something. And even if they even if they get there and the fishing's bad or this uh the weather is tough or whatever, it's almost like we gotta have an excuse to go. So it's gonna be surfing and it's gonna bring the whole family together and hopefully you get some good surfing in, but they're not they're not the types that are just gonna go sit at an all-inclusive beach resort and do nothing, maybe. I don't know. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Not really. No, I I agree with you and Jason on that. Is you know, if people want to surf, they they've got some sort of sense of adventure, you know, that they want to be they want to be active, they want to be physical, they you know. I do go to some of these resorts where you see both sides of that spectrum. I'm sure yeah.m that have gone out and put their towel on the on the you know, sunbed next to the pool, because that's where they're gonna be all day for the rest of the day. Uh but that's what makes the world go round, you know? And and and I I find that those people that do that are my biggest personal challenge to get them involved in serving. Get them to get them involved, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:07

Yeah, that's good. I remember uh actually back back to fishing. I remember I'd go out fishing and whether I was guiding clients or whatever I was doing that day, I was out fishing, and I used to drive back into my neighborhood at the end of the day, and I'd see people just hanging out. And I was like, man, what you know, like these poor people, they don't have anything to do. They do, whatever. It was that was a little bit of ego, but it was just like, man, I'm yeah, I'm so lucky that I have this thing that I'm passionate about and going and doing. And I just couldn't imagine if I didn't, you know, I had a drift boat. So what do people do if they don't have a drift boat? Or later in life, what do people do if they don't have a hot air balloon? It was just, you know, I was hard, it was hard for me to get my head around it. But yeah, so anyway. So before we go, I want to touch on like what are you doing with your business now? Do you have anything exciting on the horizon? Uh, what should we know about kind of where the state of things are in the in the surf improvement vacation industry now?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:01

Yeah, well, you know, I'm hoping this Middle East continues to quiet down because, you know, over the last couple of months, the the uncertainty of the world has been, you know, pretty tricky. Not only flight routes, but oil prices and and everything else. Everything, yeah. Um and and and it looks like things are stabilizing. At least that's what I read this morning. I could change tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

Yeah. I should mention we're recording this June 17th, 2026. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

Hey, you know, I I've got a couple of busy months coming up, uh July and August. I'll be spending a lot of time in Fiji and also in Indonesia on a boat in the up in the Telo Islands, which is off the west coast of Sumatra. I've also got a few trips lined up that I haven't booked yet, but uh boat trip through Sumba, which is off the map in Indonesia. And my best destination that I really like to share with people is uh the West Papua Raja Ampad area in eastern Indonesia. And that season runs from December till about March. And there's a couple of different options there for that's all boat-based on yachts, and it's one of those special places that I I always walk away from it thinking that I've just like filmed a national geographic documentary just because of the natural beauty. The waves are fun, there's nothing scary, it's just for any level of server, they can have a great time. You know, to the underwater world is some of the top, you know, you don't have to be a scuba diver, you can snorkel. And yeah, just the the the culture and it's one of those places that you just walk away from going, Wow, there's still hope. There's still hope. You know, it's it's it's a magical location. Yeah, so just you know, I'm just just trying to build a business and continuing to, you know, make new partnerships with new boats and resorts around the world, and yeah, just making sure that these locations, you know, will fall into the wheelhouse of my clientele and and what they're after.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:05

Very cool. I it's occurred to me that there's two questions that I have yet to ask that I definitely want to ask. Yes. First one is do you do mixed groups at all? Do because I hear you saying I've got I've got this set up, or we're gonna be in this area. Will you set up something and then let people mix in in groups, or is it all a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:26

It's mainly private bespoke trips. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:30

That's what I thought, but I didn't want to I didn't want to miss that if that was something that that was important to you. And even more importantly, especially when you talk about all these places you're going at. Your wife, is she a surfer? Does she is she supportive of this or is she Yeah, 100%. She's on board? Does she go with you on these trips? Yeah, sometimes she's a professional photographer.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

So she does ocean lifestyle photography. So it seems like she should go with you. Yeah, photo ops photo ops, but then for the coaching side of things. You know, to be able to at the end of the day look through the photos and to be able to work on technique. And then more importantly, at the end of the trip, people walk away with usually a you know, a five to seven minute slideshow, maybe even a video production that she put together, plus the the USB stick or you know, full of all their photos from the trip. Yeah, no, she's she's my rock, you know. She she she's really, really inspirational. She's self-taught with her photography. We met in the Maldives, actually. Um, she was a marine biologist and resort, and I was the surf coach. And uh, you know, at that point she hadn't served. So taught her on the store.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Does she offer like if you get a group of people uh you know, presumably as we discussed, kind of a private group, will she will she do like um photography lessons and workshops with people if they're interested in that type of thing? Or is that 100% just curious?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

Yeah, it seems like a logical fit. Yeah, you know, and you know, the locations that we go. I mean, the photography opportunity is just amazing. Clear water, palm trees, sunset, sunrises. Yeah. Yeah, no, we're really fortunate to you know, we both work, we're based out of home, you know, and you know, we actually on Monday went for a surf at about nine o'clock, got home at about noon, and just kind of looked at each other and went, that was a pretty good way to spend the Monday.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

You know, so uh absolutely I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

The office is at home, which is which is you know nice. Um has its challenges at at times, you know, working from home. Yeah. But you know, where we're headed is a is a really positive direction. We've got some some really good info out there and you know some really good feedback on the programs that um I'm offering and uh yeah, can hope to continue strong in the back half of 2026.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:48

All right, very cool. Chris, we discussed a bunch of things, uh, and it was fascinating. This is very, very fun. And I'm curious, before we wrap up, what did I forget to ask you, or what do you wish that I would have asked you that we can uh get out there before we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

I I think we covered a lot there, Jason. Uh I mean, I I I think the business I'm in is very niche. You know, not there's not many people doing it. And and I and I think what really sets it apart from a lot of other surf trip experiences is being tailored, being bespoke, being discreet. A lot of my clients, you know, are are pretty high net worth and don't want everything out there on social media about their trip and their kids and that sort of thing. You know, so to be able to offer lifetime changing surf experiences, you know, and and to really see people, families come together, reconnect, reset, and you know, change that rhythm of when life happens. I think it's important. We gotta really get people to you know enjoy things a little bit more at times to keep the balance. Balance is is so important, not only in surfing, but in life.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:05

I'm happy you said that because I was gonna follow up with a a balance joke, but you you're you're way ahead of me. You've you've thought about this a little bit more than I have. Um no, no, just absolutely well said. And I I hope and trust that somebody's listening to this that's like, you know, I used to I used to surf. I I hear exactly what Chris is saying, and that would be pretty cool to get my kids, you know, somebody like you described that it hasn't occurred to them yet until they heard this conversation. Obviously, we're gonna have your link to your website right in the show notes so people can connect with you there. Uh for those people listening. Uh yeah, his links can be right in the show notes for those people listening. For everybody, the link's gonna be right in the show notes. And there's also a quick contact thing if you want to, you know, learn a little bit more about Chris and reach out directly to him. Uh when you when you do reach out to him, tell him you heard his conversation on the show. That would be great. And because then he'll say, Hey, Jason, got a lot of good feedback, and that makes me feel good. So Chris, thank you so much. This was uh fascinating conversation and look forward to uh continuing to find ways to collaborate and and maybe I even need to go learn how to surf. I've got I'm working I'm working on getting to that high net worth point though.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:16

Thank you so much, Jason. It was wonderful and just really enjoyed how just everything flowed, you know, and um unscripted and let's just go off the cuff and it was perfect. So I appreciate the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:27

I won't have to edit anything out of this. We did good. So Chris, thank you. Thank you so thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you again soon. Have a great day. All right, bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:35

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:36

Bye.